Talk:Clairvius Narcisse

Claptrap
The second paragraph of the article seems to somewhat restate the second half of the first paragraph. - 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blue.jay.link (talk • contribs) 03:28, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

This article shouldn't be so credulous about this guy's story. --Mr. Billion 05:28, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Do you have reason to believe that this isn't truthful? It's not magic, apparently it's a combination of poisons. Sounds perfectly plausible.

I imagine that Mr. Billion has not read the book by Wade Davis, nor has he looked into other accounts.

--This case has been reported in scientific magazines and other reputable sources http://www.chemistry.org/portal/a/c/s/1/feature_tea.html?id=f216b244f00511d6e2f06ed9fe800100

Poisons don't work after you are already dead, 4 minutes after death irreversible brain damage occurs, 10 minutes after death their brain is almost completely gone. The only exception is in certain extremely cold circumstances known to lengthen the time of brain damage from 4 minutes, to a little over 10. However since these cold circumstances do not exist in Haiti, and because burial, and unburial takes more than 10 minutes, this story is inaedvertantly false. -An Anonymous Coward

That's irrelevant, a combination of poisons could "simulate death" (i.e. lack of responses, diminished pulses) without causing cardiac arrest or brain damage. Fastspinecho 20:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * "Inadvertently" means "unintenionally", "without meaning to". Besides that, the point isn't that the "zombie" is killed. He's simply paralysed, buried, dug up, then drugged. That's all possible, you wouldn't necessarily suffocate from a short time in a coffin. The zombie just has to seem dead, and be buried. If he was actually dead, obviously none of this would work. 92.40.254.226 (talk) 04:21, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Clairvius is referenced in "Supernatural Science // Buried Alive // Thursday, January 18, 3:00am [GMT-05] // CHANNEL 12 (WHYY)" http://www.pbs.org/modules/tvschedules/includes/programinfopopup.html?display_format=ep_description&title_id=59217&display_date=2007-01-18&display_time=%203:00am&display_feed=247&feeds=247,9856,15985,17699&station=WHYY&zipcode=19106&transport=&provider=&supersite=stations 68.45.162.65 08:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

The article shouldn't be so credulous because Wade Davis is heavily criticized by the Anthropology Academic community. One major criticism is the very small sample size used to prove his claims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.154.76.187 (talk) 14:18, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

This is the article, which disappeared off the American Chemical Society website in 2006. Looks like tetrodotoxin needs to be tied in with the article. ________________________________________________________________________________________ The Zombie Poison PhotoDisc by Clair G. Wood When Clairvius Narcisse entered the Albert Schweitzer Hospital in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, he appeared to be suffering from malnutrition, high fever, and aches throughout his body. His condition deteriorated rapidly as he developed respiratory problems, became unresponsive, and then slipped into a coma. Two days later, on May 2, 1962, he was declared dead by two attending physicians. His sister, Angelina, identified the body, and another sister, Marie Claire, authenticated the death certificate by placing her fingerprint on it. The next day Angelina, Marie Claire, and the rest of the family buried Clairvius in a small cemetery near their village of l’Estere. Here the saga of Clairvius Narcisse should have ended, but 18 years later, in 1980, a shuffling, vacant-eyed man approached Angelina in the village marketplace and identified himself as her brother, Clairvius. His family and many villagers recognized him immediately, and he told them a fantastic tale of being dug up from his grave, beaten to his senses, and led away to work as a slave on a remote sugar plantation. Though surprised, the villagers accepted his story because they believed that the power of voodoo magic made such things possible. It was clear to then that Clairvius Narcisse had been a member of the living dead—a zombie. Wade Davis, then a graduate student of ethnobotany (study of human use of plants) at Harvard University, went to Haiti to explore the world of Haitian secret societies to learn if the legend of the zombie had any basis in fact. After a number of setbacks, Davis secured the authentic “zombie powder” and sent a sample to Professor Leon Roizin of the New York State Psychiatric Institute at Columbia Presbyterian College, New York: Roizin conducted some quick, preliminary tests. The powder was applied to laboratory rats on a shaved section of their backs. The rats soon became comatose and moved only when strongly stimulated. After six hours they did not respond to stimulus and, by all appearances, were dead. However, when Roizin used electronic monitors, the EKG showed a faint heartbeat, and the EEG revealed the presence of brain waves. Davis pointed out that these were preliminary tests that should be repeated (with different samples, different doses, etc.) before drawing firm scientific conclusions, but the results indicated that the powder contained a very active ingredient. Laurent Rivier, a plant chemist at the University of Lausanne, Switzerland, had the sample analyzed and confirmed that it contained tetrodotoxin, the well-know toxin of the puffer fish. Tetrodotoxin The liver and reproductive organs of the puffer fish contain tetrodotoxin, an extremely powerful nerve poison. Only 0.00000065 g of tetrodotoxin is required to kill an adult, making it about 1000 times more toxic than cyanide.

The effects of tetrodotoxin are well documented in Japan, where the highly prized dish fugu is prepared from the raw flesh of the puffer fish. Chefs must be specially trained and licensed to prepare fugu. Even so, during the 1980s, nearly 200 Japanese diners have paid the ultimate price to satisfy their craving for fugu. “It is a terrible death,” reports on fugu devotee. “Even though you can think very clearly, your arms and legs become numb and you cannot sit up. You cannot speak, cannot move, and soon cannot breathe.” Japanese researchers have described three degrees of tetrodotoxin poisoning. The first is distinguished by a progressive numbing sensation and a loss of motor control akin to having the entire body “fall asleep.” The second includes paralysis of the body, difficulty in breathing, cyanosis, and a precipitous drop in blood pressure. Meanwhile, the victim can see and hear what is going on around him, although he has no sense of touch. In the third and last degree, death is caused by acute respiratory failure. If tetrodotoxin is ingested, the victim nearly always succumbs, but if it is applied to the skin, there is at least a 50-50 chance of recovery. However, it is not always necessary for the toxin to be ingested to be deadly. In 1967, an Australian soldier picked up a blue-ringed octopus that was tiny enough to crawl on the back of his hand. The creature bit him and, despite immediate medical aid, he developed respiratory distress, became paralyzed, and died. A great deal of research has been done on the physiological effects of tetrodotoxin. It blocks the function of the axons (that part of the nerve cell through which electrical impulses are transmitted), making the voluntary muscles unusable. It also causes the smooth muscle of the vascular system to relax, leading to a fall in arterial blood pressure. A rapid drop in body temperature appears to be related to the toxin’s action on the hypothalamus, the part of the brain that regulates temperature, ion and fluid balance, and certain hormonal secretions. The mechanisms by which these phenomena occur are not completely understood, but the toxins appear to work by blocking sodium ion transport channels in neurons and disrupting nerve voltage. Zombies Haitians believe that the “zombie powder” works when merely brushed on the skin, and therefore can be administered without the victim’s knowledge. According to legend, the powder can be smeared on the doorstep of the victim’s house so he will absorb it through the soles of his feet. Davis points out that all reliable reports show that the material must enter the blood directly, through a cut or abrasion, and it is therefore unlikely that it could be administered without the victim’s knowledge. Somehow, Narcisse received a dose of the zombie powder. He became ill, went to the hospital, became paralyzed, and “died.” He later said that he was conscious throughout and heard himself pronounced dead. After burial, he was dug up, beaten “to prevent his spirit from reentering his body,” and led away to a distant plantation. According to some accounts, zombies are fed a paste made from datura stramonium—the zombie’s cucumber—that contains tropane alkaloids capable of inducing a psychotic state. Continued doses could keep a zombie confused and docile during his new life as a slave. In the case of Narcisse, the slave owner died after 18 years, and Narcisse regained his freedom by simply wandering away from the plantation. This is an excerpt of an article that originally appeared in the October 1987 edition of ChemMatters. ________________________________________________________________________________________ -Rolypolyman (talk) 05:39, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

This page is crazy! Shouldn't be on wikipedia like that. Looks like a super-natural myth, all the "references" links don't work error404. How did no one delete it yet? Or at least appropriated it so it states that this is a highly disputed account.?? 172.113.231.71 (talk) 17:50, 10 February 2017 (UTC)

Maybe he faked his own death?
Yes, I'm aware of the theory that he was poisoned with tetrodotoxin, etc. I'm not saying it's not possible, but isn't it more likely that he faked his own death? Haiti, after all, is notorious as a mecca for poeple desiring to fake their deaths in order to claim life insurance payout. We can discuss the purely hypothetical application of drugs and poisons that have highly inconsistent results, but other theories seem more probable.

Also, who was the alleged sorcerer? Did they ever find his plantation or his body? What about the other "zombies?" Any evidence of their existence or who they may be? If so, all of that should be in the article. It seems to me that the whole story hinges on (among other things) this idea of some shadowy assailant willing to go through all this trouble to kidnap and enslave someone. -Sarcen1174 (talk) 22:41, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Not sure. I think it is likely that it was all just a hoax and that no one made him a slave, but we aren't sopposed to create alternative explainations, just report the ones already out there. 98.198.83.12 (talk) 04:11, 6 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Like this one: http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4262 Lippard (talk) 15:08, 19 June 2011 (UTC)


 * I saw on TV a documentary about a zombie. They actually followed a zombie through his travels. It turned out he was a mentally ill man, claiming to be the undead relative of some villagers. Half of his "family" denied it was him, half believed him. In the end they dug up "his" grave, which was still occupied by the real, dead, man. He was just some mental case who was convinced he was a zombie, and wanted somebody's family to take care of him. I'd like to be reminded of the docu's name! 92.40.254.226 (talk) 04:29, 3 June 2013 (UTC)