Talk:Clark Shaughnessy/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:41, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

As I read through the article I will jot down my concerns here. Please respond line-by-line. I will strike my comments as I feel that the concerns have been addressed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:57, 3 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Quick comments


 * General
 * Link works in the refs such as The Palm Beach Post and Time.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:50, 7 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Early Life
 * Why Loyola of the South in the infobox. I do not see any prominent mention of that name in the linked article.
 * That seemed to have been the school's name at the time. I changed the other mention for consistency. Strikehold (talk) 03:35, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Could you help the young reader with Cardinal in parenthesis after Indians on first usage. (Maybe something to the effect of renamed Cardinal in 19xx)
 * I would really prefer not to as (1) it is somewhat more complicated, (2) I think it's unnecessary detail for the lead which I tried to keep concise, and (3) I believe it is clear from context that it is referring to the Stanford U. team. If you feel strongly about it, I can attempt to reword it to remove its use altogether from the lead. Strikehold (talk) 03:35, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Let me think about it.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:38, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * back Bernie Bierman sounds slangy and should link to a formal position.
 * Back is not really slang, although I can see how the modern usage of the same term could be considered that way. Depending on the system used, the different backfield positions seem to have been largely interchangeable and not always analogous to modern positions. Bierman played left halfback, but also apparently played some at fullback and left end. I changed to halfback as that appears to have been his primary position. Strikehold (talk) 03:35, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Please link.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:38, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Linked. Strikehold (talk) 07:47, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Athletic director could probably use a link.
 * Added. Strikehold (talk) 03:35, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * How did he fare on these teams he was asked to join and at rowing.
 * I did not find much further information during my research, but added what little else I could dig up just now. Strikehold (talk) 03:35, 5 October 2010 (UTC)


 * "Williams considered him to be the best passer from the Midwest" seems an odd statement to make about a tackle.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:57, 3 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Remember that he seemed to have played mostly an end and a back. I added a statement from the same source which notes that he handled the team's passing (and kicking) duties. Strikehold (talk) 03:35, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * You should probably say he handled the passing duties before you say he was the best passer.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 02:39, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * One of the two statements has to come first, and I think putting that between the part that first mentions Williams breaks up the flow. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Tulane
 * Add dollar conversion to $1,875. (See how I convert $s at ''Fountain of Time for example.
 * Added Strikehold (talk) 07:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * he tendered his resignation without a publicly stated reason,[24] and was subsequently released from his contract needs no comma
 * Changed Strikehold (talk) 07:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The text could use a Tulane Green Wave football and basketball link. Same for other schools. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:35, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
 * These are already included where applicable. Strikehold (talk) 07:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Loyola
 * In order to understand the reliability of The Wow Boys: A Coach, a Team, and a Turning Point in College Football, a New Orleans, can you tell us who wrote it.
 * You mean inline? The author/bibliographical information is already in the footnotes. Strikehold (talk) 07:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
 * If Johnson is notable, yes. I.E., if the author has his own article.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:28, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. No, I do not believe Johnson has an article. Strikehold (talk) 07:47, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Convert the 1927 dollar amount too
 * Added Strikehold (talk) 07:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Use cfb link for Notre Dame. --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:50, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Added Strikehold (talk) 07:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Chicago
 * Convert $7,500
 * Added Strikehold (talk) 07:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Chronologically, it seems the Bears stuff belongs in 1934 and not 1940.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:50, 7 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I put all of the Chicago Bears information from the period covered in the "Chicago" section in one place for flow and continuity of the subject discussed. So while it does backtrack a few years chronologically, it would still not be strictly chronological were it placed elsewhere. I think the paragraph segues pretty well from the para above about quitting U of Chicago and then the next section on Stanford. Strikehold (talk) 07:38, 10 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Stanford (start)
 * I would link Center
 * Added Strikehold (talk) 21:20, 11 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Why do you have main for 1940 and 41 but not 1939? --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 02:57, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Because he was not the Stanford coach during that season. Did not want to emphasis that season, in fact I split off a section to make the 1939 article because it was tangential to Shaughnessy himself. I think an inline link works here. Strikehold (talk) 21:20, 11 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Is angrily necessary before complained?
 * Rereading the source, it used "complained angrily" (and paraphrased that the AD asked what "idiot" left the lights on). Complain and complain angrily are not synonymous to me. I can't think of a one-word synonym for that that conveys the same intent as the source. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Is any of the following necessary in this bio: " It started off sloppily, and the Indians failed to advance the ball in their first two possessions. In their third series, however, Albert connected with an uncovered receiver, Hugh Gallarneau, for a 17-yard pass. Fullback Norm Standlee then rushed for 20 yards. Halfback Pete Kmetovic ran untouched up the middle for the game's first touchdown."?
 * I think so, considering it describes the first three snaps and the first score of his new formation for which he is primarily notable, and that he was concerned that it would not work at all. I would say yes. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Poling System? Do you mean AP Poll or Coaches Poll?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:14, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it was just another championship-naming system. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it possible to make this clearer to the football fan who is familiar with the two I mentioned?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:32, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I just wrote a short article for this and linked it. Strikehold (talk) 07:47, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * 1st Maryland
 * Make sure to use cfb link for each team season.  For example it could be used at "the Terrapins amassed" --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Added. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Pittburgh
 * Shouldn't "a move which Shaughnessy said he was in accordance" be followed by with? --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:14, 15 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No, but it should go before 'which'. Added. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Maryland 2
 * Make sure to use cfb link for each team season.  Could be used at "The Terrapins amassed a 3–6 "--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Added. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * redlink for "return to Maryland" no good.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:36, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Strikehold (talk) 07:47, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Los Angeles
 * Is there a link for flanker?
 * Added. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Is there a link for the 48 Rams? --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Added. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Chicago Bears


 * Again link team seasons throughout.
 * Where are you talking about? It is already linked to 1951, 1961, and 1962 teams/seasons when they are specifically mentioned. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Is there a link for Bill George?
 * This is already linked at its first use. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Hawaii
 * Team season with cfblink link please.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:47, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Since no article exists, the cfblink template would add a second redundant link to the Hawaii Warriors football article. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I personally would prefer to have the substution template pointing correctly and accept the redundant link, but it is up to you.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:42, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, since he only coached there for that one year, I used the cfblink for Hawaii. Strikehold (talk) 07:47, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Personal life
 * I am not sure I understand the relevance of Robert Zuppke's quote.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:41, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a unique firsthand description of his personality, and one from another legendary coach. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Can you offer a little interpretation or context?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:42, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I could say what I think he meant, but am afraid I might be interpreting it differently than Zuppke intended, and would not want to include it as that might stray into OR. But to me, he seems to be implying Shaughnessy was cold or sullen. FWIW, Sports Illustrated (the source) did not elaborate on what exactly Zuppke (or SI thought he) meant. Strikehold (talk) 07:47, 24 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Later life
 * Do you have a date for the Stanford University Athletic Hall of Fame induction? --TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:41, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I cannot find a list of its induction classes. Strikehold (talk) 19:10, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * O.K.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:45, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

See image comments below.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:45, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I had previously searched for other free images of Shaughnessy but with no luck. Nor do I see any suitable free images in the Halas, Bierman, Jones, Hutchins, Reeves, etc. articles. Don't really think stadia images would be beneficial. Strikehold (talk) 07:47, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Checklist

 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * More images would be helpful. Maybe images of the home stadia could add something here. Possibly people who hired him.
 * When I took Tyrone Wheatley to WP:FA, they felt that stadia was better than virtually no images in a long article. In this case we would likely have historic stadia.  Give it a shot.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * Many issues remain to be addressed from above. I will give this article seven days and then reassess.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:29, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * More images would be helpful. Maybe images of the home stadia could add something here. Possibly people who hired him.
 * When I took Tyrone Wheatley to WP:FA, they felt that stadia was better than virtually no images in a long article. In this case we would likely have historic stadia.  Give it a shot.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * Many issues remain to be addressed from above. I will give this article seven days and then reassess.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:29, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Just awaiting images response.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 00:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Added one myself, hopefully it can be passed now. Wizardman  Operation Big Bear 04:06, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I would hope a few more appear, but I will pass it.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:53, 29 October 2010 (UTC)