Talk:Claudia Ciesla/Archive 1

Claudia Ciesla - more sources needed
The following text is a copypaste (except that I bulleted lists and dedacted addresses, phone numbers and email addresses) of a post to my talk page. I thought it more appropiate to be posted here. --Geniac 13:13, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, this doesn't belong here any more than it belongs on your talk page (it was blotted into my talk page also). This page is for discussing the article and improvements to it.  Whoever posted this needs to find another home for it... Valrith 20:52, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
 * An information showing many references, facts and sources posted on request by Mr. Valrith (which is a Wiki-User and always asking for more sources and facts!!) in his talk page - is called by Mr. Valtith "Blotted my talk page". No further comment !
 * You need to understand what is meant by the term "references". Wikipedia requires verifiability via reliable secondary sources (ie. sources independent of the subject of the article). Valrith 20:22, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Articles, Publications and Photos:
 * I did verify the following references and sources:

"Bild" Munich, Reference: Editors office, Mr. Malte Biss

Publications and Photos in "Bild" Nuernberg, Reference: Editors office, Mr. Phillipp Hedemann Publication and Photo Shooting with "BILD"-Nurnberg with "BILD"-Photographer, Reference: Mr. Thomas Lange Publication and Photos in "Bild" Hamburg, Reference: Photo-Chief-Editor, Mr. Thorsten Fleischhauer Publications and Photo Shooting for "BILD" as Football/Soccer World cup Girl in AOL Arena Hamburg, Reference: Mr. Thorsten Fleischhauer Articles, Photos and Interview for "Bild" Hamburg, Editors office, Reference: Mr. Jens Tuchenhagen Publication and Photos and Interview for "Bild" Berlin, Reference: Mrs. Donata Meyer Article and Photos in AUTOBILD, biggest Car Newspaper in Germany, Hamburg, Tuning Editors office, Reference: Mr. Ralf Becker Photo Shooting for AUTOBILD, Photographers Reference: Mr. Dirk Behlau Photos for "MATADOR" - as Miss Matador, Chef Editors office, Reference: Mr. Stefan Gessulat Photo Shooting as MISS MATADOR, Photographers Reference: Mr. Deniz Kalkavan Publication and Photo in German MAXIM, as Super Single Girl, Editors office, Reference: Mrs. Judith Fischer Publications, Photo and Interview in "Fränkischer Tag", Editors office, Reference: Mrs. Petra Meyer Publication and Photos in "Milwaukee Journal Sentinel", online, biggest Newspaper of Wisconsin, Reference: Dr. J. S. ((Juris Doctor, B.A., Attorney at Law, Chairman of AGBC, American German Business Club in Munich) Article and Photos in AUTOTUNING Magazin (German biggest Autotuning-Mag), 11/2006, Reference: Mr. Ralf Becker Publication and Photos on Start Page, AOL Germany, Single Girl of the week, Sept.2005 Photos for Fashion Company ANNA ROXXAH, Paris in Venice Lido Beach with "Le Chales des Stars" , Reference Director Anna Roxxah Photos for Calendar, Flyer, Advertisement, Dental-Equipment-Company, ORANGE DENTAL/Germany, Photos for Advertisement, Flyer, WEB Presentation, Photographer Rod Meyer Exclusive Dirndl Fashion of the Finest, Moschen-Bayern/Germany, Reference Director Mrs. Gina Moschen Photos for Fashion Shoot, with Top Fashion Photographer: Pierre Thomas Karkau, Duesseldorf/Germany

All articles and publications are verifying this profile and are in fully accordance of this profile. I can provide all required information. Thank you. kadenpress 11:22, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Articles not satisfying the notability guidelines of wikipedia
This article or section is written like an advertisement.

People frequently add pages to Wikipedia without considering whether the topic is really notable enough to go into an encyclopedia. Nobody knows this woman in Germany or in the rest of the World!! Wikipedia already has a lot of useless articles, but with such articles, Wikipedia, will be a commercial platform of unknown people, who want to make money from it. This article is just linkspamming WP:NOT 84.63.120.104 —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 22:06, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

The anonymous user 84.63.120.104 is wrong. 1.) See former post of publications and references. 2.) It should not be left to the judgment of the above-mentioned anonymous user, whether the model Claudia Ciesla in Germany and the rest of the world is completely unknown. 3.) In addition, no commercial usage and no Spam (linkspamming) in the article can be found. 4.) The model Claudia Ciesla was shooted in the past weeks 2 times for the website of the Munich Oktoberfest (the world's largest beer festival) photographed by the reputated photographers kubinska-hofmann.de http://www.oktoberfest.de/de/10/galerie.php?date=071004_claudia1&img=0 Official Oktoberfest Site She is finalist at the International Song Contest "Grand Prix of folk music" in Merano / Italy http://www.showevent.it/other/2/ankuendigung.php Alps Merano 2007 Grand Prix finals site It appeared now a CClaudia Calendar 2008 of the Publishing Media Gessulat (the Editor Mr. Gessulat is prior Chief editor of PLAYBOY Germany) - Destributed by "starkalender" http://www.starkalender.de/sk/kalender/erotik/frauen_kalender/cclaudia_2008.html?p=0&SID=077qttfjqvdjii0d1laohmrkj5 All this does not indicate to a completely unknown model. kadenpress 13:20, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Adding Articles for deletion/Claudia Ciesla

The really Official Oktoberfest Web-Site you can find here: http://www.muenchen.de/Tourismus/Oktoberfest/89552/index.html and nobody knows claudia ciesla. I´m sure, that claudia have a lots of private friends (hahahaha) but that is unimportant for an encyclopedia. In the German Wikipedia the articel is been deleted too. http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Claudia_Ciesla&action=edit Wiki-nightmare —Preceding signed but undated comment was added at 21:51, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

The named site is the official Web-Site of the City of Munich. The site Oktoberfest.de is the largest website about Oktoberfest produced by SevenOne Intermedia Group. SevenOne Intermedia is one of the biggest Media Groups in Germany and produces amongst others the TV-Labels ProSieben.de, Sat1.de, kabeleins.de, N24.de and many Teletexts of Free-TV-Stations as well as the ProSiebenSat.1-Group. Claudia Ciesla indeed seem to have many friends and fans worldwide. There are wiki-articles about Claudia Ciesla in the French, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese and Turkish version of Wikipedia. Some people in Germany discuss her in blogs controversial because she has apperantly won the Super-Girl-Contest 2006 organized by AUTOBILD, BILD, SAT1, KABELEINS; with big lead over with the help of her American friends and huge US Fan Group. Others especially left-wing oriented dislike and bashing her because she was many times covergirl in BILD (due to Wikipedia: best-selling newspaper in Europe and has the third-largest circulation worldwide), which is a right wing orientated newspaper edited by Axel Springer Media. Some left-wing German wikipedians disapproved and stated in a wikipedia discussion about Claudia Ciesla, that German Wikipedia should not support Models of the right-wing Axel Springer Media. The German user "Wiki-nightmare" seems to be neither very serious, nor adopting a neutral position (see his "argument hahaha" ) - and seem to have personal reasons to see this English Wiki-article deleted. Pls. also compare in the Categories: Polish-Germans, German models, Big-bust models and performers, other models and persons which are notable enough to be in English Wikipedia. kadenpress 11:20, 14 October 2007 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.224.97.239 (talk)

Nobody knows this woman in Germany or in her native Poland. Those articles in Matador (not an international publication) or Bild ( not the best selling European newspaper) can't be found. Thousands of girls have appeared in such contests, she is one of the many. Let's just create an article for every internet model!! Many models on the internet have larger fan groups, bigger busted and have more US friends than Ciesla.Many of these are known worldwide but Ciesla is not one of them. There aren't famous Polish models or enough German models to even make a comparison. Compare to the real model world! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pinktucano (talk • contribs) 17:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Keep. This is a good article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roper55 (talk • contribs) 18:55, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Keep Claudia Ciesla
There is nothing about Claudia Ciesla or the sites that she appears in, that qualifies as pornography. So she started doing topless shots in Matador, how many people don't do this and need the money. Describe pornography: It is usually graphic depictions of sex acts on film, Claudia has not partaken in that. She has done no worse than a lot of mainstream celebrities in America like Paris Hilton or Pam Anderson who have actually had sex videos shown on the internet, whether intentional or not, and I hear no talk of censuring them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.92.207.222 (talk) 02:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Please keep Claudia Ciesla's wikipedia site. She has had an interview with pimphop.com that has recently rotated off of the site that would coorberate much of the information given in this article on Wikipedia. She has been featured in BILD Newspaper many times, but those articles are not saved on the newspaper's site to use as a reference. I have the newspaper articles and can post them to an image server to prove the information that has been given on Claudia and her career is accurate. Claudia is not a porn actress. She is a professional model, professional singer and dancer. TommyNoe 23:35, 17 October 2007 (UTC)Tommy Noe
 * You don't even need to upload them; just go ahead and cite them using one of these templates. --Haemo 05:25, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

THERE ARE MANY MODELS WHO HAVE APPEARED IN BILD MANY TIMES. CIESLA IS TOTALLY UNKNOWN IN EUROPE, SHE DOESN'T SING ,SHE IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL MODEL AND DOESN'T DANCE EITHER. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pinktucano (talk • contribs) 17:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

The article should be shortened and kept. Example: Mrs Claudia Cielsa (occasional stage name: cclaudia) is a polish-german model, who became rather famous by internet-promotion. Sha was born February 12, 1987 in Wodzisław Śląskii (de:Loslau), Poland and know lives in  Bamberg, Germany. External links: [***] References: [***]. Claudia Ciesla Claudia Ciesla Claudia Ciesla Claudia Ciesla Claudia Ciesla Articles to be written [sic]: Claudia Ciesla Claudia Ciesla 87.79.237.33  —Preceding comment was added at 00:19, 28 October 2007 (UTC)


 * IMHO delete: Wikipedia isn't a news outlet, and there's no sense in keeping an article because she might become notable. If she becomes notable, great - create the article then! 145.253.2.232 05:25, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, if she becomes notable then it's different..so far she is one of the many out there .There are models who are all over the net. Claudia is not that present on line and she is not part of any modeling web sites for self promotion. --Pinktucano 21:02, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Afd was abortive and closed by Wikipedia Administrator Haemo. Your anew attempt was declined by Wikipedia Administrator Garion96. Your second anew attempt was undone because you are marking a Wikipedia Administrator's decision as "vandalism by Garion96". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.239.193.2 (talk) 08:23, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The fact is it was for a long time after the close of the 1. nomination period. Now it is the 2. nomination! I looked back in the Articles for deletion archives and saw that the 1. nomination was closed because two anonymous Users CClaudia and Wiki-nightmare prepared to take legal action. Users who make legal threats will typically be blocked on Wikipedia. No legal threats. As I see it, the viable options are: 1.)We re-open the nomination for deletion (2. nomination) or 2.)We need verifiably-sources that the Articel is notable Notability If she is notable, great - we keep the article then! IMHO she is non-notable by Wikipedia standards. 145.253.2.235 09:23, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Fact is that this German user writes the same way ("Article doesn´t survived afd"!) and removed Claudia Ciesla from birthplace article Loskau (he decided NOT NOTABLE), as well as it did Wiki-Nightmare before. He vandalized this article and even declares statements of Wikipedia Administrators as vandalism, as well as it did Wiki-Nightmare alias Thedarkside alias User:145.253.2.235 + other fake accounts many times before. This user is obviously acting in bad faith with personal animus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.239.193.2 (talk) 11:15, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Personal attacks will not help you to keep your Article. Regardless of your motivation Wikipedia does not tolerate personal attacks on editors. Remember that any user can come along and edit any page! Posting personal attacks or defamation off-Wikipedia is harmful to the entire community, and to an editor's relationship with it. We have a clear policy on Wikipedia of no personal attacks, and harassing other contributors is not allowed. No personal attacks 145.253.2.236 17:58, 29 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The unbelievable fact ist, that the users kadenpress, CClaudia, CClaudia Model and many many anonymous ip´s (maybe all are the same persons) starts vendetta agains me because i have nominated the articel "claudia ciesla" for delation. Please reade the articel for delation diskussion and you know that this persons slander against me and all persons that votet the articel for delation too.This is his tactic in his quest to defame me, you and all the others who thinking that the article should be delated!! See the german diskussion for delation: Articles for deletion/Claudia Ciesla - German same shit different bucket! If you nominated the article for delation i will vote DELATION Wiki-nightmare 01:02, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Sock puppetry: If a person is found to be using multiple accounts in violation of this policy, the sock puppet accounts should be blocked indefinitely. - Vandalism, even edits made in bad faith, is violating Wikipedia Rules. Users who vandalize Wikipedia repeatedly, may be blocked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.239.193.2 (talk) 23:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

IMHO: 1.)It’s unbelievable to me that Wiki-Users with no connection or self-interest in an article on the review goes to such effort to compile reasons to non-delete or delete it. 2.)Can´t see how the articel meets verifiability and reliability of sources! WP:V WP:RS When she is an international celebrity, why we haven´t english speaking sources? We must find a way to continue to verify the article! But IMHO it is non-notable and we don’t want non-notable things on Wikipedia. WP:N No further comment! 145.253.2.232 06:15, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Sources and references are verified, see above and former discussion. Notability was by the mayority of users and Wikipedia moderators determined. All your arguments by your sockpuppet were invalidated. Your repeatedly vandalizing is not helpful. Where there's bad faith, there's no way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.239.193.2 (talk) 13:09, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

DELETE CLAUDIA CIESLA
This suggestion doesn't sufficiently explain the importance or significance of the subject. There are many models out there who are noted and have accomplished more than Ciesla but are not on Wikipedia. Ciesla is not a noted person and totally unknown even in Europe. Not worthy for Wikipedia. If you keep Ciesla then you need to accept every article about unknown models. Also, a lot of the sources mentioned are not reputable and are not true. --Pinktucano 12:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC) 12:28, 6 November 2007 (UTC) 22:13, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Why delete Claudia's Wikipedia page? Does this person not have more important things to do with his/her time? The person who posted this information does not have the courtesy to sign it. That shows how much of a coward this person is. Claudia is a well known European model who will be a major star in the US in the very near future. Every article and reference are completely legitimate. Please stop with this petty jealousy and leave Claudia's Wikipedia page alone.--65.6.23.133 21:29, 4 November 2007 (UTC) Tommy Noe

Well, Mr Noe..why don't we put every model wannabe in Wikipedia? I am in Europe and I am a photographer who regularly works with established models here. Frankly, I haven't heard of Claudia as I haven't heard of every topless girl in irrelevant publications or online contests. Claudia's accomplishments aren't worthy and totally wrong for Wikipedia. There are thousands of girls like her and by far better. She is not known in Europe but since you're in the US I'm sure you cannot see for yourself! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pinktucano (talk • contribs) 20:37, 5 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If she became a major star in the US, great - we keep and create the article then! But at this moment she isn´t a major star!! Wiki-nightmare 22:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

PROTECT THIS TALK PAGE AGAINST SOCK PUPPETRY
@Wikipedia Administrators: It seem to be evident that a certain user from Germany, is using sock puppetry vandalising this talk page and this article. See former comments. Pls. protect this talkpage against sock puppetry and vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.51.174.33 (talk) 02:34, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

... or just blocked this anonymous IP: 78.51.174.33 (talk) it´s a Janas DNS-Proxie. Open Proxies are not allowed in wikipedia! Look at: NOP Wiki-nightmare 06:18, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

FALSE DECLARATION by wiki-nightmare! NOT a Janas DNS-Proxie ! This is defamation and lie !

Right: User of AOL - see my AOL ID. AOL users are allowed on Wikipedia.

AOL Client IP Address Information: AOL members are assigned a dynamic IP address that is used for all requests not handled by the AOL proxy system. These IP addresses can be used to identify AOL members making requests to your site.

http://webmaster.info.aol.com/proxyinfo.html

@Wikipedia Administrators: Pls. check sock puppetry of User:

Wiki-nightmare|

Thedarksite|

84.149.130.227|

84.63.120.104|

84.63.120.73|

145.253.2.232|

145.253.2.236|

145.253.2.235|

Pinktucano

Pls. also check this user for several times violating Wikipedia Rules due to vandalism and comments in bad faith. Also deleting and editing other users comments and showing aggressive behavior, see "shut up and keep quiet" --78.55.64.88 20:21, 4 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.55.64.88 (talk) 18:06, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Go to an Wiki-Admin and report it there. The Talk-Page isn´t the right Place for your own "defamation and lie" Comments! When you haven´t any good Arguments why we should keep this Articel - PLEASE shut up and keep quiet!!! Please for the next time sign your Comments by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment!! H Thank you! Wiki-nightmare 18:43, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Nobody knows this woman in Germany or in her native Poland. Those articles in Matador (not an international publication) or Bild ( not the best selling European newspaper) can't be found. Thousands of girls have appeared in such contests, she is one of the many. Let's just create an article for every internet model!! There are many known worldwide but Ciesla is not one of them.--Pinktucano 20:51, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

@anonymous IP 78.55.64.88 (talk) Notice this: This can be helpful for you! Assume good faith Wiki-nightmare 20:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

What does it matter to you Wiki Nightmare??? What do you have against Claudia and her career? Why are you so bitter? If you check out her references, you will see that her claims are true. --TommyNoe 23:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)Tommy Noe

Not notable, but:
Okay, I found reference by Claudia Ciesla from t-online. so i feel free to add this: http://onunterhaltung.t-online.de/c/55/20/09/5520092,pt=self,si=1.html German: "Claudia aus Bamberg (Foto: Privat) Claudia aus Bamberg darf auch nicht Miss T-Online werden: Auch von ihr sind Nacktfotos aufgetaucht. (Foto: Privat)" english: Claudia from Bamberg should not "Miss T-Online": She has appeared nude for a photo shoot. Wiki-nightmare 05:27, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry BIG Mistake: she published nude fotos NOT appeared nude for a photo shoot Wiki-nightmare 05:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

on line contests and posing nude don't set you apart from the other thousands!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pinktucano (talk • contribs) 17:22, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

FALSE DECLARATION by wiki-nightmare! Ms. Ciesla did never appear nude.

Nudity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nude

Right: Ms. Ciesla did topless shoots for MATADOR and BILD (was always dressed with panties). The named photo is out of a publication of MATADOR where Ms. Ciesla was Miss MATADOR in an edition in 2005. See copyright annotation: (Foto: Matador)

Reliable sources and verification can be requested from Mr. Tommy Noe, Administrator of CClaudia US Yahoo Fan Base with 32.000 members. Email: ringannouncer2@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mysdaao (talk • contribs) 17:32, 4 November 2007 (UTC)


 * German "Nacktfotos" = means nude photos and topless means in German = "oben ohne Fotos" and the stump of an Articel say: "...von ihr sind Nacktfotos aufgetaucht..." that means: "...she published nude fotos..." ;) Wiki-nightmare 18:24, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

WIKI-Nighmare is incorrect by saying that Claudia has posed nude. She has posed topless for two publications (BILD Newspaper and Matador Magazine). For some reason, Wiki-Nightmare has a grudge against Claudia and makes personal attacks on her Wikipedia page. He is a liar. All of the references that are posted on her Wikipedia page are legitimate. Wiki-Nightmare's allegations are false. He should be banned from posting this type of information on Claudia's Wiki page in the future. He has no credibility. If you need proof of Claudia's information and are not satisfied with the references given, please shoot me an email and I will be glad to confirm the information. --65.6.23.133 21:47, 4 November 2007 (UTC)Tommy Noe

I didn´t say this! The stump of an Articel says this ;) look at: http://onunterhaltung.t-online.de/c/55/20/09/5520092,pt=self,si=0.html Wiki-nightmare 22:27, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Stop edit warring
Please stop edit warring over this. Discuss it on the talk page, or I will be forced to get this article protected. --Haemo 00:32, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

citation needed
I deleted this: "Her first major Internet publication[citation needed] was in BrianX magazine in early 2005.[3]" because of this: "All unsourced and poorly sourced contentious material about living persons should be removed from articles and talk pages immediately." Thank you! WP:CS Wiki-nightmare 11:43, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I think this is getting a bit out of hand. It looks like lots of viewers cannot find enough reliable sources and articles on line don't seem to provide enough information to make Claudia Ciesla worthy of Wikipedia. We are talking about on line contests here not about relevant accomplishments that make her stand out from the crowd. When she makes it big then she should have an article. Right now she is just an online model who actually so far didn't win as much as other internet models. --Pinktucano 14:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Request to checkuser Wiki-Nightmare for several violating Wikipedia rules
@Wikipedia Admins: In the former AFD of Claudia Ciesla it was noticed by some users that the user Wiki-Nightmare has used several sock puppets to vandalise the article of Claudia Ciesla and to have his opinion assured about his frequent and continuous requests of deletion of this article. As well in the talk page of Claudia Ciesla this was noticed. This user is suspected to work with many fake-accounts which is sock puppetry. The suspected sock puppets are: Wiki-nightmare alias Pinktucano alias 84.176.226.134 alias 84.176.207.2 alias 84.58.229.82 alias 84.58.27.140 alias 84.59.35.232 alias 84.57.146.203 alias 84.149.130.227 alias 84.63.120.104 alias 84.63.120.73 alias 145.253.2.232 alias 145.253.2.236 alias 145.253.2.235. Please also check this user for several times violating Wikipedia Rules due to vandalism and comments in bad faith. Also deleting and editing other users comments and showing aggressive behavior, see his exclamation "shut up and keep quiet" in Claudia Ciesla talk page, para. PROTECT THIS TALK PAGE AGAINST SOCK PUPPETRY. He made attacks and bad faith comments and untrue accusations. - In the former AFD it was detected by some users - that he vandalised the article of CClauda probably 20 times. Pls see former AFD. On 4 Nov. 2007 Wiki-nightmare used tag (Protection IP-Vandalism) to unprotected talk page of Claudia Ciesla. His sock puppet accounts all have edited the article, AFD and talkpage in relation to Claudia Ciesla and all give extensive commentary when discussing matters. They are making similar edits over and over. Also please see similarities in edit history. There are occassions where one stops editing and another starts. All making the same kinds of edits regarding Claudia Ciesla. It should be taken into account, that the user seems to be a single purpose user with regards to deletion of this article. His only contribution is about deletion of this article and deletion of the name of Claudia Cisla on the article of her polish city. http://tools.wikimedia.de/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?username=Wiki-nightmare&site=en.wikipedia.org - also see an edit war about a T-Online Model Contest, it was said in User talk:Haemo, "it seems like a totally non-notable incident" - but about this was made an edit war by Wiki-Nightmare. - The edit and comment style is sufficiently similar which concludes beeing the user Wiki-Nightmare. All seem to have same level of English language knowledge. All are detected to be from German ID`s. There is no way to assume good faith, when the only possible motive of Wiki-Nightmare it the deletion and to remove evidence of Claudia Ciesla in English Wikipedia.--Kadenpress 14:50, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

After reading the above statement, I'd like to make it clear to all Wikipedia admins. that I am a separate user and I am not connected to user Wiki-Nightmare. I am a photographer who is also located in Germany but I am not Wiki-Mightmare. Just because you notice German IP's doesn't mean it is the same person. My statements are based on the material provided and since I am in Germany I am familiar with notable models. Claudia is not known. Wiki-Nightmare might have personal reasons to go against Claudia's page but again, mine are based on the information provided. I still think she is just one of the many internet models and the sources provided are not good enough for Wikipedia. I am a different user and not Wiki-Nightmare. --Pinktucano 18:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If you want a checkuser, file a request for checkuser at the appropriate venue. Not all Wikipedia admins, nor even most, have checkuser and there are serious privacy concerns related, so we have a process.  Please detail your evidence on a particular case.  --Haemo 20:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * @Kadenpreuss: A blind man should not judge colors! The reason why i used the tag 1 pp-vandalism is that i saw that many anonymous IPs vandalised the article. After that i ask the Admin User:Haemo to protect Claudias Talk-Page. 1 He said that he will watching the article. So i doesn´t removed the flag. An "anonymouse" IP (HANSENET-ADSL) posted this on Claudias-Talk-Page 2 it´s your own IP (HANSENET-ADSL) look at: 3 and 4 (same IPs sign as Kadenpress) the "anonymous" IP was identified as vandalism by an Admin - look at: 5 so i see a clear case of your double standards. or Why you open this with your anonymous IP 6, 7 (you sign it as kadenpress and Tommy Noe) and this 8 with your Kadenpreus-Account?? You are the Press-Manager of Claudia and TommyNoe is your/hers Admin for an US-News-Group, so why you haven´t any good arguments or verifiably sources for your Artikle about your own supported Model?? Maybe there isn´t any good third-part publised source maybe there are just your self-publised sources! Wiki-nightmare 22:47, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

@Pinktucano/Wiki-Nightmare: Dear photographer colleague, as you might know there is a photographer journalist honesty code. Each serious and reputed photographer and journalist in Germany will usually not do anonymous statements. So if you are a honest and upright colleague, then there is certainly no reason to have concerns to post here with your real name and giving in your user profile some clear information to your respectable person and work with notable Models. - Besides we do have about 200.000 photographers in Germany. I am sure not all of them know Ms. Ciesla. So if you don`t know her, this just means nothing in this discussion.

The same matter is directed to Wiki-Nighmare who states in another talkpage that he is working for German Wikipedia. Why is a respectful German Wikipedia Admin only posting here as an anonym? Neither Wiki-Nighmare nor Pinktucano are known in Germany or can be found in Google. It is also a very special and 100 times repeated argument of Wiki-Nightmare, that he does not know Ms. Ciesla. So also if he (and Pinktucano) does not know her this just means nothing. He is not a statistic institution to declare a reliable degree of popularity.

The upper mentioned statements of Wiki-Nightmare are false as many other statements of this anonymous before. The mentioned IPs (78.51.174.33, 78.52.104.196, 78.51.251.146, 78.55.64.88) are just from AOL/Alice, one of the biggest Internet providers, with 33 Millions of users. There are many CClaudia fanclubs with more than 50.000 registered members worldwide. The probability is very high that some of them are following this penetrate action of this single purpose user.

I do not post and work as anonymous user. I stated frankly many times that I am cooperating with Ms. Ciesla as well as Mr. Tommy Noe in USA frankly did and 7 more agents worldwide can be named. In this article are about 250 posts of lots of different people, which show interest in this article. All sources in the article are verified. She has been featured in BILD Newspaper and in other media many times (see also the assembly with personal references above), but those articles are not saved on the newspaper's site to use as a visible reference. All of them are scanned and can be shown to anybody on request. - Your arguments of so called not verified sources were all disproved in the former AFD. - Please check my user profile. I am working since 30 years as a credible reliable freelance and I do not need perfidious cowardly action. And if you have the courage and honour to step out of your anonymity I would appreciate very much to learn more about you with my greatest respect. THANK you! If somebody does have any questions please contact me anytime and I will be glad to provide you with all informations and verfiable sources you might need. --Kadenpress 02:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I have always signed my statements and I didn't post anonymously. Everyone has the right to use a username of their choice, even professionals. In fact, not even Claudia Ciesla uses her name for business, she uses a stage name. On that note, Kadenpress and Tommy Noe is the same person..that is definitely the case. After all you have said, you are still missing the point: it is not just about broken references but you haven't figured out that many many girls have been in Bild and on line contests, what did Claudia do that is different? There are bigger fan clubs of other models too. If she is so popular here in Germany then lots and lots of people should know her and should have worked with her by now. We haven't seen her in major fashion magazines, or as a Victoria's Secret model. Just throwing a bunch of somewhat on line articles and saying that she is in a soap opera that is not even televised doesn't make her notable by Wikipedia standards. --Pinktucano 12:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Hate to burst your bubble. Kadenpress and Tommy Noe are not the same person. I am Claudia's US manager and Kadenpress is her European agent. If you check out any of Claudia's sites, you can see the difference in the two. --TommyNoe 21:58, 8 November 2007 (UTC) Tommy Noe in Tennessee

Stop Irrelevant discussion
Should we really keep the article talk page, para. "PROTECT THIS TALK PAGE AGAINST SOCK PUPPETRY" and "Request to checkuser Wiki-Nightmare for several violating Wikipedia rules"?? I mean the Wiki-Standards said: Keep on topic Talk_page_guidelines ... "Irrelevant discussions are subject to removal." I mean we should removal this Points because it´s not relevant to improving the article!! Talk_page_guidelines If somebody is interested in an discussion about this Points he should use my talk-Page, the Pinktucanos talk-Page or the talk-Page of Kadenpress! If you don't object than we (or an Admin) should removal this Points! per the Talk page guidelines Thank you Wiki-nightmare 21:03, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'm liable to just request a checkuser on everyone to stop this nonsense.  It would probably be better if everyone just stopped instead.  --Haemo 21:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Stop discussion about this 2 para`s and if necessary, a Wiki-Admin should decide if the para`s should be removed, not Wiki-Nightmare. In my opinion the para`s should be kept visible because this is not irrelevant. It helps other users to find an objective opinion about this article. As there is or was an attempt by a single porpose user with manipulating comments in bad faith - not to improve the article, but just to delete it. --Kadenpress 22:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't be afraid! If we removed this para`s everyone that is interested can find every comment (since this article exists) via the article's talk page history. Only in more serious cases by personal attacks (incivility) and legal threats the edit history can be completely removed out per the Wikipedia policy´s. So it is allowed that every editor (maybe not an anonymous editor) can delet irrelevant discussion´s para´s and others' comments and there are no extra decision´s by an admin necessary in this case. per the Wikipedia editing comments policy´s I'm well aware of the major problem that when I should delete this para´s that we have an new edit warring and I am not really interested in an new edit warring with you and your partner. We should return to the major problems (sources and so on) of the article. So if an neutral Wikipedian read this or maybe an neutral Admin - please removed this Points per Article talk page deletion policy. I’m fine with it. Thank you! Wiki-nightmare 19:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Poorly Sourced
I don't understand how this article can stay in Wikipedia: the subject seems not notable, sources are lacking , it appears insignificant to Wikipedia standards..why is it here?? --Pearlmango 19:31, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Did you mean the request to checkuser or the Article Claudia Ciesla?? Wiki-nightmare 19:44, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Definitely bewildering comment. I suppose he meant the article. Easy to understand why this article stays in English, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and Turkish Wikipedia. The article is by many experienced wikipedians proven notable, all sources are verified. This lady does have a tremendous fanbase worldwide and this lady is featured and published in Europes bigges newspaper Bild and many other newsmedia many times. I hope I could answer your question.--LexGabini 10:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

No you haven't answered the question. This lady in question is not appearing on professional modeling web sites through Europe or the USA. In a few words, she's not out there and Europe is not "talking" about her. I asked, why is this article being wasted on someone who is not notable? There are thousands of models on the net who are very well known with big fan groups and who actually book modeling jobs. There are other girls who have appeared topless on Bild, so why an article on someone who is not standing out? This "soap opera" that she is supposed to be in is not even televised. Which means more sources are lacking. The sources provided are just her web site and on line web sites that are not famous world wide, how can you say this article is worthy of Wikipedia?? When she'll work with world famous companies then it will be a different story! --Pearlmango 20:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * @User Pearlmango: Same arguments as before - disproved

User is claiming that he knows that nobody is talking about her. Same as before when he says he knows that "nobody knows her". User does not show reliable statistic sources. Imaginary statement

Same strange prevaricating - same false arguments - same style of writing - same user. --Kadenpress 00:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

ref?
press release promoting her calender via GoogleNewsDe  -- Cherubino 20:59, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * self-published. This press release does not cite any reliable sources which attest to the notability of the Claudia Ciesla erotic star calender matter. And on this Webpage everybody can publish his own press release´s for free 1 it is an open Online-PR-Service. The notability of this open Online-PR-Service can not verified by an reliable source too. I mean the press release said that Claudia published her calender on starkalender.de but there you can find 1 some Cats too. (maybe the "Whiskas Edition" can be notabel because of Whiskas)I mean the notability of an calender should be if an famous photographer or an notability Magazine like Cosmopolitan or like Playboy published an calender with the subject Claudia Ciesla. Wiki-nightmare 21:41, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This is wrong and ignorant. Not self-published. The publisher is Gessulat-Medien-GmbH 1. The owner of this publishing company is Mr. Stefan Gessulat. He is a very well known, highly prestigious and credible person in German and European media. He worked for many years as director for German Playboy and other well-established magazines. This press release is signed by: Stefan Gessulat, Tel. 089 411 511 16, mail@gessulat.com. Therefore reliable sources and notability is clear. The further demagogic way of this comment is known by this user. Don`t underestimate and don`t displease the intelligence of other wikipedians.--LexGabini 10:59, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The open press release is for advertising the calender. Adverts are not reliable. -- 172.173.239.114 16:44, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

NOT an advert. It is an interview about a living person by a reliable source, the reputated publishing house Gessulat Medien GmbH.

The user ID 172.173.239.114 is a fabricated or spoofed IP address made by an anonymizer service like JAP, TOR or Proxy Way. This ID is only listed in IANA 1 which is not an ISP in any way, and it does not provide any network services to any end users or organizations. These kind of spoofed ID`s (Web Spoofing 2 ) are highly suspected by police because often used by criminals like child pornographie, credit card defraud, or other abuse.--Kadenpress 00:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * @Kadenpress please do not make personal attacks by other users. Or can you read an "child pornographie"-Comment or an "credit card defraud"-comment??? We should delete this Comment of Kadenpress per Wikipedia editing comments policy and personal attacks policy. Talk_page_guidelines, No personal attacks Thank you Wiki-nightmare 00:41, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This was not a personal attack, but an information against those fake, fabricated or spoofed IP addresses made by the JAP anonymizer service. This information and warning is made by German Police. The German police urges Europeanwide to ban those ID anonymity, says (citation) LKA-Speaker Rudolf Gaspary. So not at all a personal attack against you Mr. Wiki-Nightmare, but it is very interesting that you feel addressed. Also I would like to inform that Ms. Ciesla suspects in a statement of her in the former AFD, that a certain user beeing involved in a hunting and stalkering action against her. Due to German law (German criminal code § 241 b) stalkering and psycho terror is a crime and can be punished up to 3 years of jail in Germany.--Kadenpress 01:47, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * of course it was an personal attack because you said that this IP´s were often used by criminals. So you said that this User can be "born" as criminal. But where you can see an criminal offense?? Posting that "Adverts are not reliable" can´t be criminal... That you have an adverse opinion about his "Adverts are not reliable" that ist really okay. But please don´t make other Users who are interessted in this diskussion to criminals. That is nonserious! Wiki-nightmare —Preceding comment was added at 02:19, 12 November 2007 (UTC)  You said that i was making hunting and stalkering action against your favorit model. You can´t to prove beyond doubt that this is true. And that is nonserious, an personal attack an slander and an libel too. Look at this anonymous comment 1 That is an really good Exampel for an personal attack made by... maybe you or your model or your us-news-group-manager - i dont know who it was Wiki-nightmare 02:31, 12 November 2007 (UTC) and that was the reason to blanking the afd-page as personal offence. Wiki-nightmare 02:40, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The problem between you and Ms. Ciesla is apparently. If you have the courage, step out of your anonymity and give your real name and address to a Wiki-Admin or straight to Ms. Ciesla. So you both can go to a German court to settle your problems. But please do not use Wikipedia as platform for your hate against Ms. Ciesla.--Kadenpress 03:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What you said is untrue! It was said: These kind of spoofed ID`s (Web Spoofing 2 ) are highly suspected by police because often used by criminals like child pornographie, credit card defraud, or other abuse.


 * Mr Kadenpress: if you have really interessted at this Points feel free to use my Talkpage User Talk:wiki-nightmare or the 172.173.239.114TalkPage - the Subject Talk isn´t the right Place therefore! see former discussion Talk:Claudia_Ciesla and see the talk page guidelines Wiki-nightmare 03:11, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Everybody who reads this talkpage should be informed about your continual efforts to delete this article and how you are doing this. Again I ask you to give your real identity to settle your problems with Ms. Ciesla by German court, not abusing Wikipedia. Pls. also see US Cyberstalking Law: "Whoever [...] utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet [...] without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person [...] who receives the communications [...] shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both."--Kadenpress 03:45, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * @Kadenpress: bevore doing a Hexenjagd read this   -- 172.158.194.109 10:02, 12 November 2007 (UTC) PS: bei solchen unflätigen Vorwürfen schämt man sich wieder mal für seine Landsleute

My last comment at this Point: No_legal_threats  "If you make legal threats, you may be blocked from editing so that the matter is not exacerbated through other than legal channels. Users who make legal threats will typically be blocked from editing indefinitely, while legal threats are outstanding." Wiki-nightmare 04:11, 12 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I have never made legal threats against you! Unsuccessful distortion of facts. If you have a clear conscience and good faith, why are you not giving your real identity? Why are you afraid of action of Ms. Ciesla? --Kadenpress 04:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I have tried to contact Gessulat about this and about working with Claudia. He wasn't able to provide any references to me not to mention his e-mail didn't even work..--Pearlmango 20:48, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Untrue statement!! I was talking to Mr. Gessulat. No Mr. Pearlmango or other person contacted Mr. Gessulat about this. Emails and phones to Gessulat Media Publishing house are perfectly working.--Kadenpress 00:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The e-mail returned to me as "undeliverable" because it exceeded its maximum quota..so basically I doubt he even knows I tried to contact him. I guess that Gessulat Media has a weak mail system. Another thing, it is not smart to make threats to others just because you do not agree with other users. People have different views and it looks like not everyone think of Claudia as a real "model". There's freedom of speech and that means people are free to express likes and dislikes. With that said, just because someone doesn't like what you like it doesn't make him/her a criminal or a child pornographer. Watch your words. --Pearlmango 12:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

How funny is this? You say Gessulat wasn't able to provide any references not to mention that his email didn't work. How fair is that statement? You can try to contact him at info@gessulat.de or through his XING page at www.xing.com/profile/Stefan_Gessulat --TommyNoe 23:37, 10 November 2007 (UTC)Tommy Noe


 * That's not unexpected that an Company (Gessulat-Medien-GmbH) make some press releases about her advertising produkt. The notability at this subject means which reliable sources (mainstream press) cites this press releases?? Read the Biographies of living persons That Stefan Gessulat was an former chef of the Playboy is notabel for an articel about Stefan Gessulat himself but not for an article about the subject Claudia. Im Germany we have a Phrase about such things "Nichts ist so erfolgreich, wie sich im Ruhm von anderen zu sonnen" that means in

english: "Nothing succeeds like the success by other people". Wiki-nightmare 22:06, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

SPAM
As I tried to post before, wikipedia is against articles written for self promotion or advertisement. This is a perfect example. It should have been removed through speedy deletion when it was created as it looks like it's just a resume'. --Pizzaz 12:01, 12 November 2007 (UTC)