Talk:Clef

Merge
I've taken a stab at integrating all the clef atricles here, as per the discussion on Talk:treble clef. I'll wait to change the others to redirects until I hear your comments. -- Merphant


 * I like the integration very much - the whole thing seems much clearer now, with the potential confusion between G clef and Treble clef virtually eliminated. Go ahead and make the other clef pages redirects.


 * Just one thing: maybe it would be best to put the images under "G clef", "F clef" and "C clef" rather than under "Treble clef", etc. That way we know what they look like from the start. This makes it a bit tricky to distinguish between alto and tenor clefs, but probably the thing to do is to put the alto clef under "C clef" and keep the image of the tenor clef where it is. Otherwise, this is great! --Camembert


 * Or, here's another idea I've just had - how about making the "Treble clef" section a subsection to "G clef", "Bass clef" a subsection to "F clef" and "Alto clef" and "Tenor clef" subsections to "C clef"? So the overall scheme of the article would become:


 * G clef
 * Treble clef
 * Violin clef [or whatever else you want to call it, when I get round to writing about it]
 * F clef
 * Bass clef
 * Baritone clef [if anybody ever wants to write about it]
 * C clef
 * Alto clef
 * Tenor clef
 * [any other C clefs that people want to write about]

Obviously, I don't mean to use bullet points, you'd do it with headings, I guess. The more I think about this, the more I like the idea of it. I won't touch anything for now though. --Camembert

Yeah, I was thinking of laying it out like that too - group by clef symbol then by clef. BTW, anyone got any idea where to find an image of the old-style F-clef, same quality as the existing images? -- Tarquin

Ok, done. As for the other F clef, Your best bet is probably to find some printed music that uses it and scan it in. I made the others with Finale, but it doesn't seem to have that symbol in any of its fonts. It does have the F and G clefs with the 8, but I don't think those are really necessary to have here. -- Merphant


 * I have some music that has the old F clef that I can scan if necessary, but I'll look around for a better quality image first. I've scoured Sibelius (the program, not the, erm, composer), but can't find it in any of the fonts there, unfortunately. --Camembert


 * I've wrote a small bit on the french clef, baritone clef and the subbass clef. Sotakeit

Octave treble clef
There is another form, in which the K-like hooks of one form of the C clef are overlaid onto the G-clef. It's U+E056 in SMuFL. Double sharp (talk) 15:05, 23 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Link doesn’t work Skysong263 (talk) 13:49, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Try this: SmuFL Clefs &mdash;Wahoofive (talk) 00:57, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Transposing instruments and octave clefs
Instruments that transpose at the octave do not normally use an octave clef, and I'm pretty sure this is considered incorrect these days. They may have been notated that way sometimes, but I don't really know if/why/when, so maybe someone who actually knows about this can clear that up. - Special-T (talk) 17:35, 6 October 2023 (UTC)


 * We don't generally decide what's "incorrect" here on WP, but I think it's safe to say such usage is unusual, even for tenor voice parts. In fact, I can't think of any situation where such clefs are used a majority of the time. &mdash;Wahoofive (talk) 02:37, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Consider modifying the first drum pattern in Neutral clef.
Under 'Neutral clef', the 'Simple quadruple drum pattern' is shown as having a repeat sign on the bar. This is not reflected in the attached audio file below the image. Perhaps appropriate action would be to place a in it's place, using WikiMedia's musical syntax. However my skills in using the tags are not sufficient to make the change myself. RazzerMatazzer (talk) 02:12, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Simpler explanation?
This seems to have been written and/or edited by people who completely understand the topic. Sadly, it does not really explain it well enough for someone like me, who knows naff all about music theory but came here to learn. The text talks about locking a note to the stave, but the examples given don't match up to the diagrams as far as I can tell: the notes listed are in different positions for the different clefs. Please can someone clever do a bit more re-writing to explain what is going on, Music Theory 101 if you like? Richard Peers


 * Are you maybe looking for some diagrams like this? They might be clearer and more helpful. - Special-T (talk) 17:12, 20 May 2024 (UTC)



These are in the commons. I think they're clearer than the diagrams in the lede, but I'll leave it to someone else to decide. - Special-T (talk) 23:29, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

Understanding the term "putting a clef on a line"
The clef symbols are of the similar height as a complete five line staff. I would like to see a clarification of the subject term. 104.34.224.48 (talk) 22:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The main loop of a G clef almost always encircles the second line from the bottom of the staff, as a treble clef. The dots of an F clef almost always have the second line from the top between them, as a bass clef. These two clefs are seldom placed on other staff lines.
 * C clefs may be placed with the center point either on the middle line as an alto clef, or on the second line from the top, as a tenor clef. Other placements are rarely seen, if ever.
 * Does that clarify it enough? Just plain Bill (talk) 11:04, 1 June 2024 (UTC)