Talk:Clevo x7200

Contested deletion
This page should not be speedy deleted because it does not appear to meet the G11 criteria for unambiguous advertising or promotion criteria. Suggest an AfD for notability --Guy Macon (talk) 20:49, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Comment of Proposed Deletion
This page should be deleted. A web search shows that a bunch of websites sell it, and a few blog posts discuss it. Pretty much the same result you get with any randomly chosen non-notable laptop. Nothing at all notable about this particular model. Guy Macon (talk) 22:24, 16 April 2011 (UTC)


 * What did you happen to search for? For instance, a search on "World's Fastest DTR" or "Clevo Flagship DTR 2011" provides multiple sources for the x7200/NP7280. - Jclausius (talk) 01:55, 19 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks! those are excellent search terms, and they do bring up coverage that is not "for sale" or "blog post". I have struck out the above comment, and my new position based upon this new material is "undecided" "Keep. Guy Macon (talk) 01:56, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you everyone for your hard work
It looks like the thread is getting some great attention. I have removed my original statement. Other more knowledgeable members have stepped up to help keep this Wiki alive. Thank you everyone for your hard work. I am glad I had an opportunity to support this Wiki. Let me know if there is anything further I can do.

Kennyroody (talk) 23:52, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Additional request for allowing content: Clevo x7200
Jeff ClausiusThis page is to provide information regarding the x7200 laptop computer. This page is no different than similar pages for desktop replacement (DTR) laptops such as the Hewlett-Packard HP Envy. In regards to notability, a web search on HP Envy will retrieve similar results.

This article provides detailed information regarding said laptop and is a sub-page from Sager. The information is verifiable, and contains detailed information that cannot be easily found without detective work in piecing information from different laptop review site, notebook forum posts, and white papers regarding the x7200.

In addition, there are just not too many DTR laptops in today's marketplace, which allow things like SLI, Crossfire, and RAID 10.

If anyone feels this is not notable for a laptop, please let me know what other information you would like, so I can research additional text, links, etc.

Thank you, Jeff C (original author) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.88.4.102 (talk) 19:28, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 * The HP Envy article doesn't cite any reason it is notable either, so I've tagged that for a PROD review also. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:15, 18 April 2011 (UTC)


 * In regards to notability, hopefully I've been able to capture "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent" of the x7200 in the article. One can find a multitude of information in PC Gaming sites, Technology Review sites, Laptop enthusiast forums and the like.  AnandTech, PC Magazine, Tom's Hardware, Computer Shopper, You Tube, etc.
 * Best bet is to make these arguments at Articles for deletion/Clevo x7200. Computer reviews are pretty superficial, though they probably help. --Wtshymanski (talk) 23:01, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I've never participated in an AfD before. Just updated the discussion.  Thanks. -- Jclausius (talk) 00:06, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Jeff C, I just wanted to say thank you for the work you've put in this Wiki. I have saved the information and links you have provided, if it decided that the information contained does not meet the content requirement of Wikipedia. I hope my original statement was not misinterpreted, I absolutely agree with the appeal and will provide any time necessary for its survival. Kennyroody (talk) 03:29, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Need assistance on RS
While researching some "upgradeability" and release of SLI on the Clevo laptop, I came across the following citations for reliable sources:
 * "Laptop manufacturers and mobile video card manufacturers are now working together to offer gaming laptop upgrades using what is called a socket GPU design." ... "saving pennies by going with a slightly older laptop video card may not be the best option given the sophistication of today's games and the current inability to upgrade the GPU easily." - from http://www.pctorque.com/best-gaming-laptop.php appears to be written around 2003 (from the timeline of the graphics cards and memory requirements they mention). So we know circa 2003, the Socket GPU was in design.
 * Reliability-wise, probably yes though I don't know the website. Zlqq2144(Talk Contribs) 21:58, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * "Sagers are fully upgrade-able: RAM, CPU, and GPU can all be upgraded." - Oct. 18, 2010 - http://www.incrysis.com/forums/viewtopic.php?pid=496100#p496100 - Is a forum posting reliable? (Probably not, but thought I'd check.)
 * Nope, they provide neither reliability nor notability. Zlqq2144(Talk Contribs) 21:48, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * "Laptops are fantastic tools, but the portable design philosophy that makes the laptop possible is responsible for one of its most irritating flaws: an utter lack of upgradeability" and "Sorry, your laptop’s integrated video is too slow, and you can’t upgrade the video card..." - May 2008 - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/vidock-expresscard-graphics,1933.html - An article regarding a 3rd party component which allowed a laptop to switch to a higher GPU through an external device.
 * Reliability? Hmm...probably yes even though I don't know the website. Zlqq2144(Talk Contribs) 21:58, 19 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Tomshardware.com is a well-known site and a review there would add to notability. Too bad the cited review has nothing to do with the NP7280/Clevo x7200. Guy Macon (talk) 23:21, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Any opinion if these are useful citations / references? Jclausius (talk) 17:54, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * "The X7200 will arguably be the most powerful gaming notebook available when released. It features dual GTX 480M graphics cards in SLI, up to three hard drives, and desktop Intel Core i7 processors. Other features include up to 12GB of triple-channel RAM, USB 3.0, HDMI in and out ports, and a 17.3-inch display." - May 2010 - http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=5687
 * This appears to be an online review/shop site. I don't think it provides notability. Zlqq2144(Talk Contribs) 21:58, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
 * This was Sager's 1st attempt. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, but "upgradeability" of the GPU was improved in their next model, which is the predecessor of the x7200 - "The Sager NP9860 was designed with a modular video unit that allows exchange of the unit’s video card. At the time of design, Sager hoped that the unit would be exchangeable by the user, but recognized that as technology moved forward, some aspects of the design might require manufacturer modification in order for a new module to work properly. With cards that share the same thermal design as the original, we encourage end users to do their own exchanges. However, some cards, such as the new NVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 6800 w/GDDR3 and ATi MOBILITY™ RADEON® X800, have a different thermal design that requires modification of the unit by Sager in order to run optimally. New technology having this kind of impact will require Sager to modify the unit in order for the upgrade to run properly." - May 2005 - http://laptops.technologylegion.com/page/sager-np986-gpu-upgrade-options-nvidia-a-sager-has-now-released-the-nvidia-geforce-go-68-w-gddr3-as-an-option-for-the-986-below-is-an-upgrade-o
 * This came from a forum post (link just below the title saying 'Website: http:/ /www.notebookfor ums.com/') Zlqq2144(Talk Contribs) 21:58, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

More research on historical info :
 * Press release referencing the new GPU socket design which is used in the current model today. (Nov. 2004)  At this point in time, Clevo was the first manufacturer with the socket GPU (not Dell, IBM, Apple, etc.  At this point in time the gaming laptop was just starting to take off, and Clevo was the manufacturer).  I included additional sources regarding the "rebranding" of Clevo.
 * "The GeForce Go 6800 is the first GPU in the next-generation GeForce Go 6 series, with a revolutionary new architecture for delivering the highest graphics performance per watt, critical for enabling excellent graphics performance in notebooks."
 * "The GeForce Go 6800 is available now for consumers in notebooks from Sager®, Alienware®, Falcon Northwest®, Voodoo PC®, Prostar®, MV®, and others." - referencing rebranded (rebadged) Clevo systems (predecessor to the x7200) -
 * "CLEVO is a large Taiwanese computer company specializing in laptops. While the Clevo brand name is perhaps not widely known, their products are re-branded and sold by known boutique brand OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers)… notably Alienware, Sager, VoodooPC, Falcon Northwest, etc." Notebook Review (which also cross references vendor models to Clevo model) Dec 2006
 * "Clevo is an OEM, which means they sell only to resellers, not direct to customers. Once such reseller is Sager Notebooks" Tom's Hardware (June 2010)


 * Announcement of video card option for Clevo D900, a x7200's predecessor) - May 31, 2010 - Clevo Announces Laptop With GeForce GTX 480M
 * "Earlier this week, Nvidia officially announced its Fermi part for notebooks – the GeForce GTX 480M. Today that mobile GPU is ready for order in Clevo's monster gaming laptop, the 17.1-inch DF900."
 * "At the spec levels, it's definitely a desktop replacement and not something that's build for any sort of mobility – at least for not any length of time away from a power outlet."


 * Another article regarding Clevo's innovation on D900 series:
 * "Sure, we've all heard those short-lived (or outright absurd) claims of a world's most powerful laptop, and the term 'desktop replacement' has been around the block a few too many times, but a Taiwanese manufacturer is doing the not-so-unthinkable yet again. The Clevo D900c..."

Research regarding the x7200 itself:
 * From "Up-Close With Clevo's New Desktop Replacements" regarding the type of components used in the x7200:
 * "From appearances, the X7200 promises more power, by virtue of its desktop-grade hardware."


 * A reference from Tom's Hardware about Clevo shipping i7 desktop CPUs in laptops before Intel announced the i7 mobile edition:
 * "Going back even farther, we saw Clevo making notebooks for the Core i7 architecture even before Intel was ready to announce its mobile version. These desktop-based machines certainly wouldn’t thrill the ultra-mobile crowd, yet 'mobile workstation' performance makes no apologies for heft. That tradition follows through in Clevo’s latest power monster, its X7200, supporting Intel’s high-flying six-core Core i7-980X Extreme and up to two of the fastest-available mobile graphics modules."

Jclausius (talk) 05:42, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Other notable features found in the x7200 (this time from Eurocom) from a Hexus.net article :
 * "The spec-sheet on the X7200 Panther 2.0 will put a lot of desktops to shame.  The notebook can be equipped with desktop-class CPUs including the six-core Intel Core i7 980X or even a server-class Xeon 5680."
 * "The chassis even has room for up to four mechanical hard-drives for a maximum of 4TB..."
 * "The star of the show is the HDMI 1.4 input, though. With this, users can plug external devices into the laptop to view content on the 17.3in 1,920x1,080px 120Hz 3D-capable screen."
 * "...a hexacore, SLI'd, quad-SSD beast can easily push the price north of £10,000"

Herlp request
I am copying this from my talk page and asking for help. I intended to address this today, but a work emergency is preventing me. Anyone willing to jump in and help? Guy Macon (talk)

(Start of copy)

Guy,

A couple of questions regarding that Sager / Clevo page. I think I have some RS that backs up my claims, but need help in how to get that to shine through in the article. Can you help? Jclausius (talk) 16:22, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

Note, I'm new to this whole Wikipedia talk thing too, so please bear w/ me as I am just learning the ropes. Jclausius (talk) 16:24, 21 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Sure! Glad to help in any way I can. What are the URLs?


 * (Note: going to a meeting, may not respond for many hours) Guy Macon (talk) 16:29, 21 April 2011 (UTC)


 * NP.


 * AVADirect Announces X7200 Gaming Notebook with Six-Core Support mentions the x7200 being the replacement to the D900 series (which I mentioned in the AfD or discussion) as well as the target audience for this laptop. There is also a nice quote from the CMO and Co-owner of AVA Direct.


 * AVADirect Clevo X7200: Six Cores, SSD RAID, and GTX 480M SLI Yields World's Fastest DTR Notebook... the first sentence, "We're obviously running a substantially faster CPU than any other notebook, so we've decided it will be more meaningful to compare the Clevo X7200 with a few of our recent desktop reviews." and "For application performance, though, there's no mobile chip that can touch a desktop i7 processor—especially not the hex-core models."


 * Benchmark Results: Audio And Video Encoding - two quotes - "Yet, even as the X7200 appears excellent by notebook standards, putting its parts on a desktop platform results in even greater performance." and "Alienware looks great by mobile CPU standards, but the X7200’s desktop processor surges ahead in TMPGEnc."


 * More quotes from PC Magazine - AVADirect Clevo X7200
 * "If you want a laptop that can handle gaming, there are plenty of options in the market. Alienware has consistently put out great gaming equipment, and the Republic of Gamers line from Asus holds its own as well. But if you want to compare performance specs, brag about hardware, and put your desktop-based competition to shame, there are few places to turn. AVADirect, a boutique PC manufacturer, has such a laptop —the AVADirect Clevo X7200"
 * "...the AVADirect Clevo X7200 is a different beast, with both desktop and laptop components, and requires a lot of cooling hardware."
 * "The big draw for this machine is the Intel Core i7-980X processor. This hex-core behemoth is overclocked out of the box, and is currently Intel's fastest consumer desktop processor. Thanks to Intel's Hyper-Threading Technology, those six cores can handle 12 processing threads at a time."
 * "The GTX 480M is the mobile version of the GTX 480, and brings Nvidia's Fermi architecture into laptops. Pairing two together brings you to a level of graphics performance that puts most gaming desktops to shame."
 * "But the AVADirect Clevo X7200 is no ordinary gaming laptop; it's a hulking Frankenstein's monster that crams desktop and laptop equipment into the same body, and it's built to destroy the competition."
 * "Despite its enormous size and a brief battery life that renders the unit non-portable, the AVADirect Clevo X7200 is one of the most powerful machines, desktops included, to ever come into the labs for testing."
 * "if you want the serious performance of a desktop gaming rig, but want something more easily transported and set up than a full tower and monitor, then the AVADirect Clevo X7200 should be on your short list. "


 * What I'm struggling with is how this would go into an article. Do I just create a paragraph summarizing the x7200 is a laptop like no other in that it has components / processing power of a desktop, but in a laptop chassis, and then use references?  Do I include the references directly in the article?  How would you recommend to present these data points? Thanks, again... Jclausius (talk) 16:52, 21 April 2011 (UTC)


 * One last question. I think I do want to rename this from the NP7280 to Clevo x7200. Is there a way to do that?  Or do I need to start over this entire process?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jclausius (talk • contribs) 17:00, 21 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Late tonight or early tomorrow I am going the write some content of the page based upon the above (much thanks for the hard work!) Changing the name is no problem, but best done after the deletion proposal passes or fails. I don't know what the effect of a name change in the middle up the discussion will be. Guy Macon (talk) 00:52, 22 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Great. A quick reminder there is the other info in the article's discussion page.  Thanks again for all your help!!  72.251.164.101 (talk) 01:37, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

(End of copy)

Update
I re-worked the 1st paragraph, and added an info box (still need a known copyright free pic). I'll add some more info regarding the size / heat in a near future update. Also added re-branding make/model for those who may not know they are looking at an x7200. Jclausius (talk) 18:39, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Also, what does the "links" thing mean at the top? Is this even relevant to the article? Can it be removed? Jclausius (talk) 18:44, 27 April 2011 (UTC)


 * When you see something like that, click on the links to Wikipedia policies and guidelines in the box and study them. Then look at the article and see if you can figure out where it doesn't follow the guidelines.  Ask for help if you have trouble figuring it out, but questions like "what does the 'links' thing mean at the top?" are easily answered by clicking on the link.


 * I would also encourage you to look at the links at User talk:Jclausius and set aside an hour or so to read and study them. Wikipedia isn't very hard to learn, and there is a lot of help available, all of which is conveniently linked on your user page. Guy Macon (talk) 19:07, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * In regards to the "links", I wonder if that comment was left over before someone did an edit. In any case, still a newbie, so I'll sit down and do some reading.  Thanks again.  Jclausius (talk) 20:39, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Proposed rename
It has been proposed that this article be renamed to Clevo x7200 and NP7280 redirected to the new name. Comments? Guy Macon (talk) 18:56, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think that would be controversial. Whoever proposed it should feel free to be WP:BOLD. Thparkth (talk) 20:40, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Done. Guy Macon (talk) 08:46, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Guy! Jclausius (talk) 21:51, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

If anyone is interested I'd propose another update and name change, to something like "Clevo desktop replacement laptop computers", or something more sensibly shorter. The x7200 is over 4 years old and discontinued, and Clevo continues to make computers of the same general type, but even more monstrous. I'm not sure whether a Clevo article, or a single general article on all computers of this class (desktop CPU, lots of drives, several fast video cards, massive or multiple PSU, ...), would be best. Maybe the appropriate article already exists, and this article could be trimmed and merged into it? I'm not the person to do this, I don't have the knowledge. Pol098 (talk) 20:24, 9 January 2015 (UTC)