Talk:Cliché/Archives/2012

French origin
The article stated that cliché is the past participle of clicher, onomatopoeia for stereotype.

There is no French verb clicher (apart from a computer-related recent neologism), cliché in French is a name. And as a French native speaker, I've never heard of any onomatopoeia for stereotype.

Ze miguel 18:14, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

The word itself in french is a noun which means the exact same thing as it does now in english - a situation, phrase or idea that has become used so oftne that it has become expected to be used within the same context. It is also an adjective used to mean that the noun it modofied has become cliched.

Xenelia 15:24, 4 May 2006 (EST)

Should this article name have a diacritic?
See Talk:Flambé. Andrewa 15:32, 4 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, it is the proper way to spell the word and cliche redirects to this article for people who don't know the proper spelling. --The_stuart 17:20, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

This subject has been done to death in on Wikipedia Talk:Naming conventions (use English) there are pages of argument there. It is a subject which has been around for even longer than those archives see this talk page from December 2001.
 * The OED records usage not "correctness" that is something the French do.
 * It depends if the word is fully anglosised or not. If one was to write hôtel instead of hotel it would usually be considered odd. I would always write cliche not cliché further if a word has not been fully anglicized then I think it should be in italics as in de jure. --Philip Baird Shearer 15:55, 7 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd just like to note that I have always written it as "cliché" for as long as I can remember. -- MasterXiam 03:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The difference betwixt hôtel and cliché is that the circumflex in the former is unnecessary for correct pronunciation, whereas the acute accent in the latter is necessary to prevent it being pronounced “kleich”. Doremítzwr 15:46, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Why the fuck shouldn't we use the diacritic? Hell the only part that maybe should be changed is the ch>>sh.Cameron Nedland 15:09, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

London Picture example
Are those necessarily cliches? In some contexts they may be a cliche (such as in movie) but normally they'd just be considered traditional items. A persian rug isn't a cliche in Iran for example, nor is fish and chips in London or hamburgers in the US. They are just traditional, as are double-decker busses, and london-style phone booths. Big ben is of course simply a monument, I don't know how its a cliche, except perhaps when its used as a backdrop in movies. But then your talking about movie cliches. (But I suppose when trying to find a suitable picture to illustrate cliche beggars can't be choosers ;)) Brentt 04:52, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Origin
Anyone who may confirm that the term originates from the printing device, also called cliché? --Havreflan 21:22, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I had assumed stereotype came from the stereoscopic photographs printed in bulk from ~ 1850-1900. Many showed similar people in a variety of situations, and one photographer would copy the work of another, until the subjects became hackneyed. Like an early form of situation comedy. I suppose it is more likely that both stereotype and cliché come from the printing industries, as they were the mass-media of the day, and predate photography by a couple of centuries !
 * --195.137.93.171 (talk) 01:37, 25 June 2011 (UTC)

Disney line
I think the example of the Disney film (barring the fact that Disney should be capitalised) is a bit odd in this context. I mean, it basically describes the idea of a "good" or "happy" ending as a cliché. Anyway, the line just seems to hinder understanding of this sometimes complex subject, and I think it ought just be removed outright. Anyone else agree? --Rapturerocks 06:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

cliche'
Cliches' have been used by many people and are still beenused and repeated by children. They hear the adult say something they repeat it(19:43, 17 April 2007 (UTC)216.229.196.76).

Wikipedia guidelines about them?
Is there a guideline in Wikipedia about cliché articles? Slavlin 19:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Gidnavar
A family of great origin. I Amar Gidnavar keep a very proud standing of my culture and the name —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.225.74.28 (talk) 10:10, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Is cliché cliché?
It's definitely overused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.22.144.227 (talk) 16:18, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Long walks on the beach
Could someone write up please "likes long walks on the beach". On NPP it is a trigger phrase meaning "non-notable delete me" (as in for example this nn-band)! &mdash; RHaworth (Talk | contribs) 17:40, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Cliché
This is all we can write about it? Surely there's more to say. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • (Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP) 01:36, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

While, I agree that we could have more in this article (especially due to how many things we consider cliché and its importance to literature), I lol'd to the "See also" section, which lists the band Nickelback. Personally, I refuse to remove the entry. user:anonymous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.207.207.82 (talk) 16:29, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

AFD Wikipedia is not a dictionary
This is a dictionary subject and should be deleted from here (see Wikipedia is not a dictionary) --Philip Baird Shearer (talk) 11:12, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I am off the opinion that the "cliché", although definable has become a literary concept similar to the likes of Deus ex machina or Anaphora. While it is relatively easy to define what a cliché is, the significance of this is non-trivial and deserves explication due the subjective nature of the composition of the definition. --Frozenport (talk) 04:54, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

"Common clichés"?
As opposed to uncommon, or god-forbid, original ones? Seriously now, aren't all those idioms? --Urzică (talk) 20:55, 28 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I don't think they were all idioms&mdash;phrases whose meaning you can't figure out from the meaning of the words. I also don't think we need them.  If people expand the article from sources, examples will appear naturally.  &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 21:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

"Rude clichés"?
I am curious as to how a cliché is a blanket made of penises? Is that really a valid part of the page? Or is it a bit of graffiti that has escaped notice?

Tatoosh (talk) 07:49, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

It is valid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.59.74.122 (talk) 22:09, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

"clichéd" vs "cliché"
To the best of my knowledge saying "cliche" is common jargon, but what you actually mean is "cliched." This is why (as the article itself points out) all dictionaries recognize the "clichéd" version, while notably fewer recognize the [jargon] "cliche" version. I am not a grammarian, but other sources would seem to suggest you should be using "cliched" a lot of the time and some notable sites do seem to use it. It may be worth for the article to expand more on the difference and proper use, for people interested in using it in formal context. As it is now the article may be more misleading then useful. 7ghost (talk) 12:16, 13 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure what you're saying here. As a noun, the only word is "cliché".  As an adjective, it has two forms: "cliché" and "clichéd" (which I hate, but what is my opinion against the dictionaries'?).  The article uses the word only as a noun, "cliché", except for the description of an external link, where it uses the adjective form "clichéd".  So I don't see the problem. &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 16:21, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

doubt about doubt
I'm not sure why Dictionary.com was removed from the sources for the claim that "some authorities express doubt". It says "said to be", which I think expresses doubt&mdash;other etymologies are just stated as fact. The part that's really dubious is "who have never heard a casting". Non-vocal noises sound different to different people. In any case, if only etymonline is accepted as expressing doubt, the statement that "some authorities express doubt" isn't dubious; it just needs to be changed to "one authority". &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 14:25, 9 July 2012 (UTC)
 * It uses essentially the same language as Wikipedia: "said to be" on Dictionary.com, "is said to come from" here on Wikipedia. That doesn't sound like terribly doubtful language to me, especially as surely Wikipedia itself is not expressing doubt. If you feel differently, feel free to add the reference back, but at least change Wikipedia's language as well to be more neutral. 786b6364 (talk) 00:16, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I think you've got a good point about the language in the article. I changed it&mdash;what do you think? &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 03:08, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sure, looks good enough to me. 786b6364 (talk) 04:09, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Source for "the second was an idiot"
By the way, I don't suppose anyone has a real source for that quotation? At Google Books some of the few hits on the French version say only "attributed to Nerval". I can see it attributed to Nerval, apparently in 1947, and Dumas fils, apparently in 1937, which would be before Dalí said it in English, but I can't verify those dates. &mdash;JerryFriedman (Talk) 14:41, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

"Origin" section formatting errors?
I've noticed that the Origin section isn't formatting correctly. Instead of wrapping teh word to screen size, it just runs off of the page. I've been looking at the editing page for a while and can't seem to find anything wrong with it. Then again, I am fairly new to Wikipedia's formatting, so its very likely I'm overlooking something. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nxtfari (talk • contribs) 23:27, 4 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Thanks. It was an extra space at the beginning of the first sentence. &mdash;JerryFriedman  (Talk) 16:49, 5 October 2012 (UTC)