Talk:Clicker training

Untitled
It was originally discovered and used with laboratory rats and pigeons, and later was used in training animals such as dolphins and pigeons.

Removed first instance of "and pigeons" - as it is repeated... Shedali (talk) 15:21, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Even common house cats are easily trained using clickers and treats.

It is true that cats can be clicker-trained, but the way the sentence is stated draws focus to the common misconception that "cats can't be trained", as if clicker training is a miracle training method that can train an untrainable animal. It just isn't logical to single them out like that, because it's basically promoting a concept that isn't true--that training a cat is an unusual and amazing feat. It is not. 68.205.68.57 (talk) 19:46, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Too much of this entry, especially the inclusion of TagTeach, is just an advertisement for Karen Pryor and her Sunshine Publishing company. 172.162.139.227 (talk) 11:50, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

"At this point the clicker is no longer needed for this behavior (e.g. stimulus control is attained). "
This is not a very accurate statement. While you may not *have* to continue using a clicker, you certainly still need to reinforce behaviors even ones under stimulus control or they will extinguish (sometimes quite quickly!) It might be useful to add information in the article about continual versus variable reinforcement schedules as these are very important concepts in using positive reinforcement methods, particularly in situations when continual reinforcement and/or use of the clicker is not possible and/or desired. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Maryjo313 (talk • contribs) 00:52, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

addition to external links
An interesting lecture by Bart Weetjens about rats he TAG-trained to find land-mines is available at TED.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.168.75.9 (talk) 21:40, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

==The introduction to this topic is very complex

It sounds like a topic where a simple overview is possible... More complex stuff belong deeper in the article. Maybe somebody will simplify it one day (89.204.230.208 (talk) 20:16, 19 January 2011 (UTC))

Magazine training an alternate name?
I looked up the term magazine training (used in the first sentence as an alternate for clicker training) and it showed up in a reference to a very old (1977) study dealing with pigeons: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1333622/

I believe it is not in current use when people talk about clicker training nowadays. Maybe it should be put down later in the intro rather than in the first sentence, in any event. I'm deleting it for now.

Canadianknowledgelover (talk) 01:19, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Neutrality & how-to issues
I'm working on cleaning up the article for neutrality and taking away the how-to aspect that was deemed inappropriate.

There's a line now in the Methodology section that I have trouble with: "ABE conducted experiments that demonstrated that for their purposes, where they may be training many animals at the same time, this method was more efficient. " - A reference of a private conversation that some unnamed person had with someone else is not a citation that is useful to anyone. If it can't be referenced more broadly it needs to be deleted.

I changed the heading of the section "Co-founders" to "History" as it seems more relevant to the content, which goes beyond the original co-founders.

Some of the details of the ABE that I couldn't find anywhere I'm going to put here: such as "They created the first free-flying bird shows and a host of commercial animal exhibits. "

This section is just troubling for privacy purposes, and may not represent the full spectrum of ABE's work: "Radio-carrying cats were steered through cities and into buildings under a contract with the CIA. Dolphins located targets many miles from their trainers, at sea. Ravens and other birds, carrying cameras and directed by lasers, could fly to a specific window of a skyscraper and photograph the people inside. Gulls, expert sea searchers by nature, could locate and report life rafts and swimmers far offshore. " I can't find a reference that I can personally verify on this one. Until then, I'm putting it here in case someone is troubled by its removal.

This is how I've edited the History section now, adding info about the "bridging stimulus" term coined by the Brelands, omitting some more personal info like Bob Bailey's marriage to Ms. Breland: "B. F. Skinner first identified and described the principles of operant conditioning that are used in clicker training. Two students of Skinner's, Marian Kruse and Keller Breland, worked with him researching pigeon behavior and training projects during World War II, .  and saw the potential for using the method in commercial animal training. The two later married and in 1947 created Animal Behavior Enterprises (ABE), "the first commercial animal training business to intentionally and systematically incorporate the principles of behavior analysis and operant conditioning into animal training."

The Brelands coined the term "bridging stimulus" in the 1940s to refer to the function of a secondary reinforcer such as a whistle or click. ABE continued operations until 1990, with the assistance of Bob Bailey after Keller Breland died in 1965. They report having trained over 15,000 animals and over 150 species during their time in operation.

Canadianknowledgelover (talk) 02:41, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Intro section - moving history; types of species tba
The current intro section has some content that belongs better in the "history" section, so I moved it there. It's a bit detailed right now talking about the Brelands and so on.

One section that was in the intro I have some trouble with: "Similar methods were later used in training over 150 species including whales, bears, lions, chickens and domestic dogs and cats, and even humans.   "

Similar methods? Actually it used to say 140 species but I changed it to 150 after finding a current reference, which is the number of species trained by ABE. However, that is not necessarily clicker training. It would be better to identify what clicker training is being used for - what species are being used or have been used. The references provided, four of them, are diverse. As I don't have access to the last three sources, will try to find other sources and edit the content out for now. I found a fairly general source from the ASPCA that I used.

This section of the intro sounds really technical and perhaps not appropriate for the article: "A clicker is an example of a conditioned reinforcer (secondary reinforcer) or "bridge". Technically a stimulus from any sensory mode may become a conditioned reinforcer (such as light or scent)." So I'm going to edit it out for now.

I am being bold ... hope you find I am also being fair and neutral.

Canadianknowledgelover (talk) 03:15, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Methodology
The current methodology section has a warning that it offers "how-to" advice. I've repeated what it says below in case anyone is interested (including the warnings, that I'm going to deal with). I find it somewhat cumbersome and technical too. I'm going to change it to an outline of the basic steps, based on an online article from the ASPCA. This is my current draft:

"The first step in clicker training is teaching the animal to associate the clicker sound with a treat. Every time the click sounds, a treat is offered immediately.

Next the click is used to signal that a desired behavior has happened. Some approaches are:
 * catching: catching the animal in the act of doing something that is desired, for example sitting or lying down. Eventually the animal learns to repeat the behavior for a treat.
 * shaping: gradually building a new behavior by rewarding each small steps toward it.
 * luring: using the treat like a magnet to get the animal to move toward the desired position.

Once the behavior is learned, the final step is to add a cue for the behavior, such as a word or a hand signal. The animal will have learned that a treat is on the way after completing the desired behavior."

The current version (that I replaced) is below:

The first step in clicker training is when the animal learns that the clicker sound means that they will get a primary reinforcer, usually a tasty food treat, small enough to be consumed almost instantly. Some trainers "charge" or "load" the clicker. Some animals learn the association more quickly than others.

Later, progress may be tested by waiting until the animal's attention is elsewhere and then clicking. If the animal immediately looks toward the trainer as though expecting a reward, it is likely that the animal has made the association.

Some trainers simply start training a behavior and following desired approximations with a click. ABE conducted experiments that demonstrated that for their purposes, where they may be training many animals at the same time, this method was more efficient. Today many clicker trainers use this method of introducing the clicker.

After that, the trainer uses the clicker to mark desired behaviors as they occur. At the exact instant the animal performs the desired behavior, the trainer clicks and promptly delivers a food reward or other reinforcer. One key to clicker training is the trainer's timing; clicking slightly too early or too late rewards and therefore may reinforce whatever behavior is occurring at that instant. The saying goes, "you get what you click for."

Clicker trainers often use the process of "shaping," which means gradually transforming a specific behavior into the desired behavior by rewarding successive approximations to it. A successive approximation is "a behavioral term that refers to gradually molding or training an organism to perform a specific [completed] response by [first] reinforcing responses that are similar to the desired response." Clicker trainers learn to split behavior instead of lumping it, i.e. to look for and reward small steps in the right direction rather than waiting for the whole, "perfect" behavior to appear on its own. It is important to create opportunities for the animal to earn rewards very frequently. A reinforcement rate of one click/treat (C/T) every two to three seconds is common among professional dog trainers. Criteria for receiving the click is tightened gradually, at the rate the animal is comfortable with and so that it will remain successful.

Canadianknowledgelover (talk) 03:21, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Removing warning about multiple issues
I worked on all the sections except the controversy one, which needs a bit of work yet. But at this point feel it is time to remove the warning. I've repeated it below for reference.

Canadianknowledgelover (talk) 03:20, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Controversy section
I'm now going to delve into this one. Right now it is very specific, lists a number of concerns that a dog owner might have. Clicker training isn't exclusive to dogs, however. Further, it misses out on the real controversies that seem to me of far greater importance: ethical quandaries about whether we should even be training wild animals for circuses, marine exhibits etc. I'm going to address these. As for the other concerns, I'm going to highlight just a few that come up frequently.

I noticed that in the current text, many references were included but they refer to only a few sources. My preference for providing a source is including a single footnote, and picking only the best one or two sources within that footnote. So I'm going to consolidate the references quite a bit. But because a couple of books sound like they might be generally helpful (Click for Joy and Clicker Training for Obedience), I added them to the list under Further Reading. The other sources on general dog training didn't really fit here. But I'm going to repeat the whole section as it exists now, below, in case anyone would like something from here worked back in later on.

Here is the current text that I am going to replace:


 * 1) "The dog will never perform the behavior without the clicker." The clicker should be used to identify correct behavior during training, not to maintain behavior once the behavior has been learned. Once a behavior is performed each time the animal hears a specific cue (known as a command in traditional training), the clicker is discontinued.
 * 2) "Dogs will become distracted by the clicks of other trainers in a class or public setting." This is very short-lived problem. Participants in clicker classes find that dogs are easily able to discriminate that only the clicks from their handler pay off. Clicks that don't pay off are soon ignored by animals in learning situations.
 * 3) "Dogs become fat with clicker training because they get too many treats." Part 1 of the solution to this problem is either to use a portion of the dog's regular diet as the training treats or to use reinforcers other than food. Part 2 is to remember that a training treat for a dog the size of a Labrador Retriever should be about the size of a pea. Smaller dogs get even smaller treats. Larger dogs get only slightly larger treats. Food is not the only reinforcer that can be used in training. A "reinforcer" is anything the animal is willing to work for in the current situation. Common non-food reinforcers include toys, attention, and the opportunity to do something the dog wants.  For example, for a dog who wants to go for a walk, putting on the leash can reinforce sitting, going through the door can reinforce the dog who wants to go outside, and being greeted can reinforce a dog seeking attention.
 * 4) "You can't clicker train in noisy environments." The influence of environmental reinforcers is a challenge sometimes. Training for distractions is done by first training without distractions and then gradually adding complexity to the training environment.
 * 5) "A dog may grow into adulthood and only listen and obey if the owner is carrying treats. If the owner does not have treats, often is the case that the dog is distracted and paying attention to whoever may have treats and food rewards available." This is actually a potential problem with the "Lure Reward" method of training where food is visible. In clicker training the food should not be visible to the animals until the behavior is completed. This could also happen when the trainer uses only one type of reinforcer. If the trainer uses only food, then the dog clearly learns that if food isn't present, then there can be no reinforcement. This is a trainer error. The solution is to use a variety of types of reinforcers and to hold training sessions where food isn't present. Also, you can include running to get the reinforcer into the reinforcement sequence.
 * 6) "There are some situations where a clicker may not be loud enough, such as in hunting or retrieving when the dog is 'working away' from the handler." The clicker is not magic; it is just one type of marker. If the dog can't hear the click, use a different marker such as a whistle or a tone on a collar. Deaf dogs are frequently trained with a flash of light or a hand signal.
 * 7) "Some dogs are sensitive to noise and frightened by a clicker, so clicker training won't work for them." If your dog is afraid of the clicker, then simply choose a different marker—perhaps even just a word, the clicking of a retractible pen, or a juice cap.

Canadianknowledgelover (talk) 22:29, 30 July 2014 (UTC)

Does clicker training use punishment?
My sense is that it does not, but a contributor to Dog training insists there is punishment with this extended argument. Can anybody help enlighten this discussion?--Tomwsulcer (talk) 10:20, 27 June 2016 (UTC)