Talk:Cliff Burton/Archive 1

re Sandman
Find a cite for it and put it back in. Anger22 21:17, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay

Orion at Cliff's funeral
Orion wasn't actually performed by the remainder of the band at Cliff's funeral; it was played over a stereo. Wangoed 19:43, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Songs about Cliff
His life and tragic death have inspired many songs from bands including Megadeth, Primus, and Motörhead,...

Motörhead have never wrote (or performed) a song about Cliff. They did, however, write a tribute to the Ramones. Roda 18:01, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Also the grindcore/hardcore group The Tony Danza Tapdance Extravaganza has recorded the song "Cliff Burton Suprise" featuring a quite amazing bass work.

Motörhead did remake "Enter Sandman", just to let you know.

Line removal
"I dream of Lars Ulrich being thrown through the bus window instead of my mistical master Cliff Burton. What the hell piece of crap cover band dare say that. I deleted this line: "Prior to the accident, Burton and lead guitarist Kirk Hammett drew cards to see who would claim Burton's bunk. Burton drew the Ace of Spades, the death card." To me it sounds like an urban legend or a myth. Even if it's true (have a link?) it doesn't seem appropriate for a Wikipedia article. --Patik 04:26, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC) it does sound verry unbelieveable that he happened to draw the card that is a symbol of death and died...-Drrake
 * A few interview CDs (including one I own called X-Posed) contain Kirk himself discussing this. Here is a link for the quote. Jh51681 05:10, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I also can confirm that; I saw a special on VH1 'Behind the Music' where they show a short video clip of Kirk saying words to that effect. --wisher

Everyone knows that. C'mon my friend. Thtat's been a fact straight from the band for years now. J-Dog 14:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Battle of the Bands Video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8600360414571121543&q=cliff+burton

It seems like a High School Auditorium; and Cliff seems really young. The date on the video says "1984," but Cliff was in Metallica by then. You can hear For Whom the Bell Tolls in it and (Anesthesia) Pulling Teeth in their very primitive forms. I don't know how it could add to the article, but it's a pretty neat find fans would enjoy. It does show Metallica used very early compositions by Burton. The article also has no mention of the band "Agents of Misfortune." LikuX 08:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Evaluation of progress toward GA status
All the pictures are used legally, that's good. The article is neutral, provided that there are no notable controversies about him (I doubt haters much to say about him anyway). The writing is interesting, and the sentences are not very long yet not choppy either. There are not that many sources on the page, but a majority of the page which needs to be cited already has been. There are still more citations needed (on citation-less paragraphs) for me to give you an A on that. The lead WP:LEAD has an appropriate number of paragraphs. Try doubling the length of the paragraphs. This article may have a greater than 50% chance of passing. But I probably will not be the one to give the final say on this.◙◙◙  I M Kmarinas86 U O 2¢  ◙◙◙ 06:26, 11 June 2007 (UTC)


 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
 * 1) It is stable.
 * 2) It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
 * a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
 * 1) Overall:
 * a Pass/Fail:
 * a Pass/Fail:


 * Comments:
 * 1. Manual of Style:
 * see WP:LEAD. The lead should be a summary of the article and more or less capture the same info the article then expands upon. So, for example, which was his signature piece? Which was the last Metallica album with Burton called? Things like that. Should still be very short, but a little more comprehensive.
 * Also, there are some lost, one sentence paragraphs, which shouldn't be..
 * 2. sources:
 * Some don't seem to reliable, since their are written by single people, without editorial oversight or peer review (like magazines for example). And like Kmarinas said, there are some unverified claims, which I would either remove, or try to back up (e.g. "The most well known non-Metallica tribute..", "During their tours, Burton exposed the band to a variety of music styles...".).
 * The entire equipment section is unreferenced.
 * 6. use of copyrighted material:
 * The source given redirects to flickr, which obviously is not the original source of the picture and does not clarify anything about the copyright status of the picture (which is why we have to state the source), especially since it looks like a cropped scan of a magazine, and the magazine is never named etc..
 * 7. Overall, I had to fail the article, although I think that it's not very far from being able to pass the GA-process, so keep up your head and your good work! Best wishes, Johnny w   talk  11:43, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Cliffs six string playing
From this site, I feel Kirk's quote about Cliff is quite relevant as even more exposes Cliffs all round musical talent further than the article does right now, some of it should be added to exemplify just the type of influence he had on the other members and how it made Metallica what they were. "in fact, I picked up a few things up from his hotel-room guitar playing that ended up on Master of Puppets"--Dimedude 14:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

FAC nomination
The FAC nomination for this article has not been completed. Please create the page Featured article candidates/Cliff Burton and then add it into the main nomination page. → AA (talk) — 08:39, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * done PENSIMONSTAR 15:10, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

GA nomination on hold
Leave a note on my talk page when you're done with this. &mdash; Dihydrogen Monoxide  02:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


 * "which was composed of songs that had been written prior to Burton's arrival." - Change "Burton's" to "his"
 * "Master of Puppets" doesn't need to be wlinked twice in 2 sentences (in the lead)
 * "Cliff had two elder siblings, Scott and Connie" - Change "Cliff" to "He"
 * Ref 1 needs formatting. Suggest cite web.
 * "Burton joined his first major band, Trauma, in 1982." - Standalone years (1982) shouldn't be wlinked, unless there is a full date.
 * Ref 3 needs better formatting (I'm gonna list them anyways, but please convert the article to cite web, or similar)
 * "But the idea of having to move to Los Angeles did not sit well with him" - Sentences shouldn't start with "But" - just remove it and start with "The idea of..."
 * "Metallica, eager to have Cliff in the band left their origin of Los Angeles to make home in San Francisco." - Ref/Source?
 * Ref 5 formatting - All Music Guide is the publisher, not part of the title
 * "he has a credit on 6 of the album's 8 tracks." - reword to "and he received credit for 6 of the album's 8 tracks."
 * "(which is often mistaken for a guitar)" - Ref/Source?
 * "They were signed to Elektra, and began working" - Replace "They" with "Metallica" or "The band"
 * Ref 7 - Publisher is All Music Guide
 * Ref 8 needs full formatting, as does ref 9.
 * "Burton's final performance was in Stockholm, Sweden on September 26, 1986" - The date here should be wlinked.
 * "On the evening of September 27, 1986, Burton had won the game with an ace of spades" - Date should be wlinked.
 * "Burton fell through the window of the bus and the bus fell on top of him killing him. [11] . " - Fix up the issues with the full stops (.) here. Also, there shouldn't be a space between the full stop and the ref.
 * "At the ceremony, the instrumental "Orion" from the album Master of Puppets was played. Burton had never played the song live, and Metallica did not perform it until June 6, 2006 (when they performed the album in its entirety to mark the 20th anniversary of its release). Until then, only sections of the song had been used as part of their performance. During the 1990s, Burton's successor, Jason Newsted, would often use the bass line as part of a medley." - A few things. 1) Wlink for the date (6 June 2006).  2) Refs needed for playing of "Orion", for Metallica first performing it in '06, for Newsted using it as part of a medley.
 * "Cliff cited bass players like Geezer Butler, Phil Lynott, Geddy Lee, Lemmy, and Stanley Clarke as influences. He has also cited guitar players such as Ritchie Blackmore, Ulrich Roth, Jimi Hendrix and Tony Iommi as influences." - Ref/Source? Also change "Cliff" to "Burton"
 * Refs 10, 12 (cite video I think), 13, 14, 15 and 16 (all cite web) need proper formatting.
 * In the "Tributes" section, refs/sources are needed for the following things; Cliff 'em All (what it's about, what it's made up of), ...And Justice for All (what it's made up of, what it's about), Megadeth's memorial stuff, unveiling of memorial stone (and its location would be nice), dedication of albums to Burton.

Reviewed version:

Good luck, &mdash; Dihydrogen Monoxide  02:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Passed. &mdash; Dihydrogen Monoxide  03:29, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

live perfomance of orion
metallica played this song already at rock am ring/rock im park festival(june 3rd/4th), so the date June 6th is definitely too late.

New info added to Wiki on the song being played on June 3, 2006 with a link to the Live Metallica download page which details that this was the first playing of Orion live. Arkayn71 (talk) 07:30, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Metallica played the full version of Orion live in San Francisco when they opened for the Rolling Stones in 2005. I know because I was there. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_1R2muIc5A This was the first live performance by Metallica in several years and I'm quite certain was the first time Orion was played in full. This was not a full Metallica tour as they opened for the Rolling Stones as a surprise ticket just for those two shows. It was just a surprise concert since the Stones were in Metallica's home town and they wanted to get back into the swing of things. It was quite funny seeing the older Stones crowd looking confused by what they were seeing.

Automatic addition of "class=GA"
A bot has added class=GA to the WikiProject banners on this page, as it's listed as a good article. If you see a mistake, please revert, and leave a note on the bot's talk page. Thanks, BOT Giggabot (talk) 05:11, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

stop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.185.114 (talk) 03:40, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Jason Newsted
Should it be noted that Cliff was one of Jason's influences? He was a big fan of the band before joining and he said he really mourned Cliff's death too. He also mentioned in some interviews (and you can hear it in live videos) that he doesn't copy Cliff's bass lines note for note out of respect. For example, he wrote Orion's interlude again, only mimicking Cliff's original and the same goes with his version of Call of Ktulu (which honestly was pretty damn good) I think he also mentioned that Orion was/is his favourite Metallica song in an interview in 89. 91.153.230.158 (talk) 18:40, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Influence
Cliff's obsession with surreal horror writer H.P. Lovecraft gave the band a large array of album cover art. In what way has Lovecraft contributed to Metallica album covers?? --84.157.121.247 02:25, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but I think that the cover of Some Kind of Monster depicts some form of Ktulu. This was, of course, after his death but I believe it may have been a dedication to him. Joetheodd 07:28, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't think so, Cthulhu has always been shown with a octopus-like head. LikuX 08:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Lovecraft did not influence any coverwork (unless there's a few pesky bootleg singles out there), only the songs "Call of Ktulu" and "The Thing That Should Not Be". ArdClose 19:43, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Don't you think the song "Orion" was ispired from Lovecraft too? I think i've read it somewhere. Sorry if i can't remember where. I mean, Orion is the planet or star from where some of the "monsters" in Lovecraft's mythology come from, and is quite often mentioned in his books. 202.90.78.204 (talk) 06:59, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

English American?
Why is Cliff's page in the Category:English Americans? I see no reason why it should be.--Jeff79 00:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

He was of English descent, Burton is an English family. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.142.153.165 (talk) 14:05, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Cliffs dad, Ray was born in England, he's half British. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.15.30.215 (talk) 18:42, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

His nationality isn't English-American, but he IS of English descent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.114.141.201 (talk) 20:36, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

METALLICA CANCELS TOUR AFTER MEMBER'S DEATH
Heavy metal band Metallica, described as "in a state of shock" over the death of bass player Cliff Burton, has cancelled the remainder of its current European tour and put future plans on hold for the moment.

Burton, 24, died Saturday morning when the band's tour bus went out of control on slick pavement near Ljumgby, Sweden, while en route to a show in Copenhagen. According to a band spokesman, the bassist was sleeping in an upper bunk next to a window; as the bus slid off the road, the window apparently gave way. Burton was thrown out of the bus, which then tipped over on him, killing him instantly.

GOSPEL FEST: The Mighty Clouds of Joy, the Soul Stirrers, Slim and the Supreme Angels, the Williams Brothers, Dorothy Moore and a half-dozen more gospel acts from around the country will be featured in a "World Series of Gospel" show Monday at the UIC Pavilion. Proceeds from the concert will benefit the United Negro College Fund. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.103.158.84 (talk) 20:05, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

His Older Brother's Death
Should there not be something about the death of his older brother inspired him to pick up bass because his brother was a guitarist or bassist? I'm sure I heard this in an interview with one of Cliff's parents or something. Also this is very similar to a certain other musician who is sadly no longer with us - Chuck Schuldiner, not that is relevant however, but it just kills me that to wonderful people such as Cliff and Chuck have been taken from us.

Just Found that interview... 

" He didn't take music lessons until he was 13, after his brother died. He said to a couple of people, 'I'm gonna be the best bassist for my brother.' " I suggest others read this and update the article, there is some very interesting stuff on here about how he outplayed his tutors--78.144.80.5 23:54, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

after it says something about cliffs brothers death it says he took a dislike to drugs but this is wrong as he was a weed addict.

So his brother was a bassist that died from drugs? That is what it sounds like! 24.18.201.174 (talk) 02:47, 4 January 2010 (UTC) Thats what I thought too. 24.18.201.174 (talk) 21:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

He and Hetfield (and later Newsted) were supposedly against cocaine and heroin and other hard drugs, while Lars and Kirk experimented with them. They must have tolerated Mustaine's involvement with drugs when he was in the band though, so I wonder how much they were bothered by it. I do remember reading Hetfield say when he first smoked marijuana he got freaked out by it and that sent him off drugs, but I thought Cliff was just generally against them.58.96.96.199 (talk) 12:33, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Most influential?
"He is widely considered to have been one of the most influential metal bassists of all time." I think it needs sources. By who? Why? It looks very unencyclopedic like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.171.177.93 (talk) 18:20, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Cliff Burton=== ==

The day he died is coming up, so we should honour him. 24.139.31.210 01:41, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

AMEN! 24.18.201.174 (talk) 02:47, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

RIP Cliff! Maelstromlusby (talk) 23:47, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

"The Album titled "...And Justice for All" has no audible bass guitar in honor of Cliff."?
So far I've seen three conflicting lines on this. "Jason has his bass turned way down," "Jason didn't show up for mixing sessions," and now "the album doesn't have bass in honor of Burton." So which is it? Mewtation 10:06, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I've also heard, "The way in which the album was mixed didn't allow for bass". After listening to the Justice album with bass, I would guess it's that one.--164.106.67.158 23:44, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Why doesn't anyone acknowledge that the most likely explanation, that is that if the bassline follows a heavy distorted guitar-riff closely enough, it becomes difficult to distinguish them by ear. The bass CAN be heard clearly on One in the clean-tone sections.

It's that Jason's bass was turned down by the band as a prank. Watch the Metallica episode of Biography from 2008. And by the way, why is this on Cliff Burton's page? --Blaguymonkey (talk) 05:45, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Equipment
Moved this section from the article as it has been labelled as unreferenced since 2009. AIR corn (talk) 10:54, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Bass guitars

 * Rickenbacker 4001 in Burgundy; later modified with Gibson Mudbucker and Seymour Duncan J Humcancelling pickup. Cliff also had a Seymour Duncan stratocaster pick-up installed under the Rickenbacker bridge in place of the foam mute. This bass resides at The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
 * Aria SB-1000. Cliff is seen using this for "Day On The Green" with dot inlays.  Cliff was not really a big fan of this bass and preferred the Black n Gold 1. This bass is now at HQ, Metallica's current recording studio.
 * Aria Black n Gold 1. This was also his favorite guitar, and used most often. This had the famous oval inlays. It is now on display along with James Hetfield's ESP Explorer at the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame.
 * Alembic Spoiler. This was stolen from Cliff, according to him in an interview.
 * Aria Black n Gold 2. Cliff is almost never seen with this bass.
 * Fender black p bass with black pick guard.

Amplifiers

 * Mesa Boogie 4 4x12 cabinets 1 behind him and 3 behind Kirk Hammett
 * Mesa Boogie 2 Custom-built 1x15 cabinets in to match 4x12 size
 * Ampeg SVT-1540HE Classic Series Enclosure
 * Mesa Boogie D-180 head x 2
 * Sunn Coliseum Lead amp with 2x15 cabinet in the early years
 * Peavey MK IV Head with 1x18,2x10 in early years
 * Randall Amplifiers head was used during the Kill Them All tour and also a 2x18 cabinet

Effects

 * Chrome Tel-Ray Morley Power Wah Boost
 * Chrome Tel-Ray Morley Power Wah Fuzz
 * Electro-Harmonix Big Muff
 * Ibanez Tube Screamer TS-808
 * Boss CS-2 Compressor
 * Boss CS-1 Compressor (according to "To Live Is to Die" Cliff Burton Metallica Biography Book-Front page color pics)
 * Electro Harmonix Bass Balls
 * MXR Limiter (Red One)
 * Ibanez HD-1500 Delay/Moduration Rack unit
 * For Kill'Em all he had the Boss compressor going into the wah into the Big Muff and for Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets Cliff had the compressor going into the wah into an Ibanez Tube Screamer.

Misc.

 * Rotosound bass strings

Picture
Could someone not find a good picture of Burton to put on this article? This article could really use one. Jason Newsted's article has a picture. You could just put a bad picture if that's all you have and then we can change it later but this article really needs a picture. --Davidjustinlee 21:20, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Agree with said above. One of the greatest bass players of all time deserves a picture. A big one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.110.113.228 (talk) 01:30, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Photo finished
Why was the photo of Cliff Burton removed? You have photos of Jason Newsted and Robert Trujillo. There was a crude black & white up for awhile, then was deleted. Burton deserves a full COLOR photo. Please cut a color photo up. They do exist, Burton deserves a face to his name! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.73.254 (talk) 03:42, 7 August 2012 (UTC)

Style of playing
From Style of playing: "Especially during his solos, he often played on 2 or sometimes even 3 strings at once." This sounds very lame. Most guitarists and bassists play 2,3,4,5 or sometimes even 6 strings (if its a 6 string bass) at once.
 * If they play power-chords with a pick (like Lemmy), then yes. But bass is usually played using one string at a time. Roda 15:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I have to vouch for that not being true. Pretty much any metal bass player worth their weight can play more then one string at a time, pick or not.  Such as say Steve DiGiorgio —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.73.199.69 (talk) 20:38, 6 December 2006 (UTC).
 * Steve isn't really "any" bass player 08:07, 15 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.46.33 (talk)

Cliff Burton Needs a face
Hey, new to this account thing but have been using wiki for years you guys rock. Was wondering if you could add a picture for Cliff Burton's page, as a fellow bassist and a big time fan of master of puppets I think he has earned the respect. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SanfordSaysNo (talk • contribs) 04:49, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Congratulations and welcome to Wikipedia. I don't know, but I imagine that there is a challenge in finding a free image, with copyright permission.  Hopefully something comes up. — Smuckola (Email) (Talk) 20:56, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Lulu Lou Reed collaboration
I'm removing this reference - Burton passed away 25 years before this album was recorded. It was a Metallica-Reed collaboration, but I don't see how Burton could have been involved. Tidewater 2014 (talk) 18:47, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Actually, never mind. It's a "Metallica" section. That is somewhat confusing. Tidewater 2014 (talk) 18:49, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Bus Driver charges
There is an inconsistency. The article for Master of Puppets indicates the driver was charged with manslaughter, but acquitted:
 * "The driver was charged with manslaughter but was not convicted.[8]"
 * 8. Wall, Mick (January 2006). "Master Piece". Guitar World: 52–61, 104–110. ISSN 1045-6295.

Where as this article states he was not charged at all:


 * "The driver was determined not at fault for the accident and no charges were brought against him.[18]"
 * 18 Behind the Music: Metallica (Television production). November 22, 1998.

Both views are cited, however it appears the sources (assuming they are accurately cited) are apparently in conflict. Neither of them are online sources, so I'm unable to check their accuracy. Rusty Lugnuts (talk) 00:23, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Cliff using a pick?
I swear to you, it looks like cliff is using a pick in this picture. I don't think he used a pick constanly, but im sure he used one everyone once in a while. I thought i should mention this because everyone regards cliff as a player who absolutley never used a pick, and theirs a sterotype agaisnt bass players who use picks that usally has something along the lines of " hes not good because he dosent use his fingers". being a bassist who uses both fingers and pick i can tell you that there is very little difference and that this sterotype is only really used by people who have never played a bass. Most people think this sterotype is true because of clifff burton. Don't get me wrong, cliff is my biggest influence, but im tired of hearing this so please look at this picture and tell me what tyou think. http://web.vrn.ru/vlad14/cliff6.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.178.162.1 (talk) 15:57, 7 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately the link is dead Mechanized art (talk) 06:50, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

His biography says he never used a pick while playing bass, at least not while performing or recording. I doubt he would have used a pick for a one-off. That picture was probably taken right after Burton had played a note. Also note that that would be a terrible way to hold a pick, if he was using one. So, I doubt it. 76.78.238.195 (talk) 02:04, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

cliff used a pick occasionally in his James, and Kirk's band spastik children. diff people from other bands were in aswell. the music was complete nonsense, it was for fun...cliff would use a beer bottle as a slide too. he only ever played with a pick in that band and even then rarely...I've seen probably 95% of cliff Burton's pictures out there....never have I seen him use a pick on stage with metallica or in rehearsals.. in fact if you buy the metallica book 'back to the front' about Metallica's master of puppets album and tour, you will see a few pics of cliff indeed using a pick but only with spastik children Cliffdimerandy (talk) 22:44, 8 May 2021 (UTC)


 * You must cite a reliable WP:SECONDARY source to support the assertion that Cliff wrote most of the songs. Otherwise, your claim will be removed. Binksternet (talk) 01:24, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Can we Add More Regarding the Bunks?
Did the whole band start drawing cards or straws, or was it just Burton? I mean, this is a very, very uniquely situation, how circumstantial and unpredicted, there just has to be more to the story? Do this also imply that if whoever else sat in that bed would have died too? This article literally gives no real insight about things like it should. It tells you a part of a serious story and that's all? We have plenty of time to write down exactly the details and add more info. 124.170.21.47 (talk) 07:47, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Intro
>while metallica was on tour in 1987 cliff died in bus accident >death date 1986 Pierce97x (talk) 04:42, 25 February 2023 (UTC)