Talk:Clifton Conference

Some resources that I found
@FloridaArmy asked me for help on this entry and I think it's an interesting topic so I quickly went to look for sources. I found some good stuff!


 * "Negros Condition discussed at the Clifton Conference today" - Lowell Sun, August 19, 1908. Of interest here is that the 1908 Clifton Conference was the 5th edition of the conference, so apparently it was also a longer-term cultural institution.
 * "Sunday Schools to Aid: Clifton Conference Discusses Uplifting of Colored Race" - Boston Post, August 19, 1908. This much longer article goes into depth about the speakers and topics.
 * "At Clifton: Closing Session of Conference Held Today" - Lowell Sun, August 20, 1908. This one says that the conference was composed of "about 75 white and colored persons who have interested themselves in furthering the education of the negro race".
 * "Lifting Colored Race Up: Clifton Conference Hears Education is Progressing in the South" - Boston Post, August 20, 1908.

All of those are local to where the conference was held (Massachussetts) but the conference also drew national attention:


 * There are articles in newspapers in Salt Lake City and Chicago which are identical in content and from the names of the papers I presume they had the same ownership (early syndication I guess): "The Clifton Conference", Salt Lake City Broad Ax, September 26, 1908.  And "The Clifton Conference", Chicago Broad Ax, September 26, 1908.  Of great interest here is this statement: "Every reader of this journal should have a copy of Alexander's Magazine for September 1908, which contains a thirty-six page article about the great Clifton Conference held August 18th, 19th and 20th at Clifton, Mass...."  The article goes on to say that this conference was "the most... important ever held in this country".  (Presumably they mean the most important conference on the topic.)

If we could get a copy of that magazine, it would surely be a great source!


 * Baltimore Sun, August 21, 1908 contains a quote from a participant, Bishop George W. Clinton, who should be in wikipedia (google him!) and who said "I am confident that this conference has been the best thing that has been done for us, the colored people, since Abraham Lincoln wrote his emancipation proclamation." Strong praise indeed.


 * To show some of the longer-lasting impact of the conference, consider this review of the conference proceedings (the book you have helpfully located and uploaded) in The Washington Bee, April 16, 1910, which calls it one "of the greatest books that has ever been published showing the rise and progress of the colored American race."

I will stop soon because I'm out of time but I also find articles from San Francisco Call, Denver Statesman, Richmond Times Dispatch, Daily Kennebec Journal, Harrisonburg Evening News, Oakland Tribune, and a few others.

Finally, to help establish the notability of this conference within the African American community, the Baltimore African American has an article 9 September 1916, 8 years after the conference, which recalls it as "historic" and details how the ideas generated at the conference contributed to the growth of "colleges and schools for Negroes". Jimbo Wales (talk) 20:06, 6 January 2023 (UTC)


 * If all of these were added, it'd be ready for an article very shortly. Sarrail   (talk)  02:27, 10 January 2023 (UTC)


 * Alexander's Magazine, 15 September, 1908, vol. 6, iss. 5.
 * attendees: O. O. Howard and Robert Daniel Johnston fought at Gettysburg, John Ellington White, Wesley John Gaines
 * Fifth Conference, statement of purpose, further attendees
 * "sixth Clifton Conference"
 * fiveby(zero) 19:35, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Good finds, fiveby. This "sixth Clifton Conference" thing is confusing. An Era of Progress itself, pp. 46-49, has photographs of the attendees and lists their names, and identifies them as "Members of the Fifth Clifton Conference", which is also how it's reported in Southwestern Christian Advocate (also elsewhere, e.g. The Boston Globe, 8/20/1908, p. 5). However, I can't find any reference in the book itself, or in other sources, about a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or any prior Clifton Conference. And to complicate matters further, Dorsey's relatively-recent, university-press-published book refers to it as the "sixth". Levivich (talk) 20:48, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The five are listed in Era of Progress, just an error by Dorsey i guess. Notability is covered here isn't it, we don't need more newspaper accounts but looking for anything more recent and in depth? fiveby(zero) 23:02, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * D'oh, how'd I miss that? Thanks. Yeah, I agree notability is covered and we don't need more old newspaper accounts. Levivich (talk) 23:14, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Here's mention of a 1907 Clifton Conference on black religious life which wasn't listed. That made me go back and check Dorsey, but she is describing the paper of W. B. Matthews (William B. Matthews?) at the 1908 Conference. Not finding much more, here's a mention of R. H. Boyd's paper, but just in a dissertation. Maybe listing those attending and looking for mentions of their papers might turn up something. fiveby(zero) 23:51, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by fiveby (talk • contribs)
 * Two more brief mentions:
 * Page 76-77 of
 * Page 41-? of, but I can only get the first few lines via Amazon preview.
 * I guess the teacher-training program was called the "Clifton Plan", which is another search term, though it doesn't help that there are other things in history called the Clifton Conference and Clifton Plan. Levivich (talk) 00:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Black Religious Experience listed at HathiTrust so someone at WP:RX would probably be able to grab it. fiveby(zero) 01:16, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Good idea, I put in the request. Levivich (talk) 01:32, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Fuller has a short chapter in his autobiography, fiveby(zero) 13:22, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Biographies

 * Henry A. Boyd
 * William H. Brooks not sure if NAACP founder among many is notable enough, but there doesn't seem to be a WP article on the riot
 * Thomas O. Fuller a WP article for the T. O. Fuller State Park but none for the man
 * ...and many more
 * Thomas Wellington Henderson (1845-1915), not sure, editor Colored Radical and Colored Citizen (Fort Scott), almost nominated to run for Kansas Lieutenant Governor
 * Judson S. Hill (Sudborough) (1854-1931) not sure
 * Alexander D. Hamilton or possibly his company, Hamilton and Son
 * M. C. B. Mason (Madison Charles Butler) (1859-1915) renowned orator, author, Chautauqua circuit, toured Europe?
 * ...and many more
 * Thomas Wellington Henderson (1845-1915), not sure, editor Colored Radical and Colored Citizen (Fort Scott), almost nominated to run for Kansas Lieutenant Governor
 * Judson S. Hill (Sudborough) (1854-1931) not sure
 * Alexander D. Hamilton or possibly his company, Hamilton and Son
 * M. C. B. Mason (Madison Charles Butler) (1859-1915) renowned orator, author, Chautauqua circuit, toured Europe?
 * Alexander D. Hamilton or possibly his company, Hamilton and Son
 * M. C. B. Mason (Madison Charles Butler) (1859-1915) renowned orator, author, Chautauqua circuit, toured Europe?
 * Alexander D. Hamilton or possibly his company, Hamilton and Son
 * M. C. B. Mason (Madison Charles Butler) (1859-1915) renowned orator, author, Chautauqua circuit, toured Europe?
 * M. C. B. Mason (Madison Charles Butler) (1859-1915) renowned orator, author, Chautauqua circuit, toured Europe?
 * M. C. B. Mason (Madison Charles Butler) (1859-1915) renowned orator, author, Chautauqua circuit, toured Europe?
 * M. C. B. Mason (Madison Charles Butler) (1859-1915) renowned orator, author, Chautauqua circuit, toured Europe?

Expansion
See diff

Added a lot of material, including on earlier conferences. Not sure if they'd independently meet the WP:GNG, or if they had a lasting impact. It's possible that the article should simply be cover the fifth conference, and not all of them; this merits additional discussion.

I was in a bit of a rush, so some sentences are unusually close paraphrases; I've believe I've added the appropriate template in all those instances (and the source articles are now in the public domain). If I missed any, grab the trout!

I relied on contemporary sources. They can be replaced with more recent scholarship where applicable; this is simply a foundation for expansion. Expanding based on Alexander's Magazine and recent books seems like the most natural next-step. And I apologize if any typos survived proofreading. DFlhb (talk) 12:53, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The 11th-13th convention reports of the ISSA have some scattered content:
 * pp. 478-480
 * proposal for the 1908 conference, pp. 106-7
 * pp. 515-521
 * and throughout on the other conferences. fiveby(zero) 15:02, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * pp. 515-521
 * and throughout on the other conferences. fiveby(zero) 15:02, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * and throughout on the other conferences. fiveby(zero) 15:02, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

First interracial conference?
We have an apparent factual conflict among the sources: Has anyone else seen anything else in RSes about this, that would help resolve this apparent conflict? Levivich (talk) 19:07, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Bradley's 1956 book p. 75-76 (republished in 2020, citation is in a thread above) discusses a conference at Hartshorn's house in Clifton that took place sometime prior to 1907; Bradley doesn't give a date or call it a "Clifton Conference", but this appears to be the 4th Clifton Conference in August 1905--it resulted in a plan to hire "secretaries" in each state, which Bradley says was deemed a failure at a conference held in Greensboro, N.C. "early in 1907". The next conference was held in Raleigh, N.C. in December 1907, and Bradley says, "this time interracial". At the Raleigh conference, the group came up with another plan, and Bradley says "the Clifton Conference"--the 1908 one that is the subject of this article--was convened to discuss implementation of what Bradley calls the "Raleigh Plan" although I've seen other sources call it the "Clifton Plan".
 * Earlier I removed from the article a line that said the Clifton Conference was the first interracial one, cited to a contemporary news source, in light of Bradley's history saying otherwise.
 * However, since then WP:RX came through with Foster (2003) (citation above), who writes, p. 41, "The 1908 Clifton Conference is notable because it was the first such meeting that included blacks to discuss and solve 'their' problem of Christian education".
 * Here's the Committee on "Work Among the Negroes" August 22-25, 1905. And a list of committee members for 1905-1908 and 1908-1911. These damn conferences confusing and i hope someone can make things clear for the reader. fiveby(zero) 19:35, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe comes down to what "such meeting" means? Booker T. Washington spoke on education at June 18-23 Louisville ISSA convention, so maybe means a meeting including the college presidents or a meeting to discuss an action plan? fiveby(zero) 20:09, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Foster tracks Bradley in many respects. Here's a longer excerpt of Foster (email me if anyone wants a copy of the chapter). For context/background, the book is Black Religious Experience, the chapter is called "Contextuality", there's a section called "Blacks and the Sunday School Movement", and a sub-section called "International Sunday School Association Era", where Foster writes that in 1893, the group "created a field-secretariat approach" and "Between 1895 and 1908 four pioneer black religious educators traveled throughout the South promoting black Sunday Schools and training leaders, particularly in areas where none existed." The four were L. B. Maxell, Silas X. Floyd, G. B. Marcus, and "James E. Shepherd" (possibly James E. Shepard). Foster writes that this secretary plan failed because local black Sunday School associations couldn't raise their part of the money to pay the secretaries. This is exactly the same thing that Bradley writes in his book.
 * The next sub-section in Foster is "The Clifton Plan", and it's only 3 sentences: "In search of a more feasible plan to improve Christian Education among blacks, W. N. Hartshorn, President of the International Sunday school Association called together a group of leading religious educators and Sunday School workers at his summer home in Massachusetts in 1908. The 1908 Clifton Conference is notable because it was the first such meeting that included blacks to discuss and solve 'their' problem of Christian education. The 'Clifton Plan,' produced at this conference, envisioned courses in religious education and Sunday School administration in the black colleges whose students and graduates would train black lay teachers and Sunday School workers in local leadership training type courses."
 * So I think "first such conference" means first conference of religious educators and Sunday School workers.
 * But Bradley says something different, that the December 1907 Raleigh conference was "this time interracial", and: "To put over the Raleigh Plan, Negroes were invited to another Conference,--this time at Clifton, Mass., and again the Committee on Work Among Negroes bore all the travelling and other expense. On August 19, 1908, to Clifton came practically every outstanding Negro leader of the Nation, there to think through the problem of Religious Education among their group."
 * McMillen seems to suggest Clifton was not the first. She writes, "ISSA officials decided that they needed to involve more African Americans in Sunday school work. [Discussion of secretary plan and the failure to raise necessary funds.] The ISSA then scrapped this idea and met with black ministers in several southern cities...ISSA officials called a meeting in 1907 with field secretaries and Sunday school officials from ten southern states. The officials finally seemed to understand that ... blacks preferred to support their own churches rather than a project run by a white northern organization. ISSA evangelicals decided that the best approach would be to help educate African Americans, and to offer courses ... Determined to put a plan into effect, Hartshorn and his wife invited seventy guests to their home in Clifton, Massachusetts, for a three-day conference in August 1908...A third of the delegates were black...".
 * I'm not seeing anything relevant in either Dorsey or Handy. Levivich (talk) 20:38, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Tyms has presidents of Shaw University, Virginia Union University, Benedict College and Negro Baptist pastors and workers from ten states. I'll look at his references when i get a chance. Do we want more references for Raleigh 1907, (which i was confusing with Louisville 1908) or just resolving the "first interracial" question? fiveby(zero) 21:13, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I think just resolving the "first interracial" question, which perhaps could be resolved with "one of the first"? Levivich (talk) 21:21, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Looked deeper.
 * Bradley is a virtual paraphrase of Era of Progress and Promise (1910), pages 12-13, and can't be considered secondary. Hits the same exact key points (inability to raise the funds, unreliable info, Greensboro conference), and the unattributed quote ("few were able to control their own time") is verbatim EPP as well.
 * Alexander's Mag (1910):
 * "'No such gathering has ever before been held in this country and we believe it marks the dawning of a new era of better understanding of, and service for our race.'"
 * The Congregationalist (contemporary) says:
 * "'The southern conferences on education have discussed the question on all sides, but always in the absence of the Negro. Mr. W. N. Hartshorn seems to have achieved a degree of success in bringing representatives of both races on a common platform at his home in Clifton, Mass., last week.'"
 * It's arguable whether my interpretation of Congregationalist was even accurate.
 * Re: Levivich: So I think "first such conference" means first conference of religious educators and Sunday School workers.
 * Bradley's contradiction is again straight from EPP, page 15. And McMillen's passage is cited to… Hartshorn. So far, everything's still either primary or contemporary, sadly, and the contradiction is still "only" between EPP and Congregationalist. Will keep looking. DFlhb (talk) 21:26, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Relevant:
 * page 106
 * and page 118, which gives examples of previous interracial conferences but says the 5th Clifton was the most notable one.
 * (fiveby linked these but focusing on different page numbers)
 * Looked for more scholarship (focused on the Clifton conference) but didn't find. anything relevant. Suggest we just reword based on Alexander and Congretionalist, which are at least secondary. DFlhb (talk) 22:48, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * FWIW, Foster also cites only to EPP (footnote 20). Levivich (talk) 22:24, 13 January 2023 (UTC)