Talk:Climate of Europe

Assessment
Once the lead summarizes the article below, and there are sections for items like temperature, precipitation, and severe weather, we can upgrade this to Start or C class, depending upon the level of its apparent completion. Thegreatdr (talk) 16:26, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Please, also mention the advantages of climate of europe. Nikhil Pandey Dhoni (talk) 03:00, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Last Sentence
"Europe uses its own tornado scale, known as the DA TWISTY, which ranges from a a slight twist for extremely weak tornadoes to extremely twisty twist for the most powerful known tornadoes.[30]" This is the last sentence of the article. Used to be "Europe uses its own tornado scale, known as the TORRO scale, which ranges from a T0 for extremely weak tornadoes to T11 for the most powerful known tornadoes." Don't know how to fix.

European Union
I recently attempted to create a list of pages detailing the climate of individual countries within the EU. This list was deleted and the page Climate of the European Union redirected here. I would like to propose that a list of the climates of individual countries of Europe be added to this page, possibly as a template. Jpjacobs.00 (talk) 16:38, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good idea for a template. Even if half the "Climate of wherever" links are red, It would encourage article creation (i hope). Totnesmartin (talk) 17:50, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Forgotten Europe!
Why? Why? Why? Why are the Canary Islands dismissed when it comes to Europe? Do people not know that the Canary Islands are part of Spain? It's awful to see maps of Europe without the Canaries! They are not mentioned in this article - Climate of Europe! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tatwalsh (talk • contribs) 11:34, 7 November 2016 (UTC)


 * I don't think that the Canary Islands' political connection to Spain makes them part of Europe geographically. The French island of Réunion is also an outermost region of the EU but it would be bizarre to think of it as being in Europe - especially in terms of climate! JezGrove (talk) 12:16, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

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Number of Precipitation Days on Map
What could be the cause of the large difference in number of precipitation days for Amsterdam (indicated as 132) and Brussels (indicated as 199)? From http://www.klimaatatlas.nl/klimaatatlas.php?wel=neerslag&ws=kaart&wom=Gemiddeld%20aantal%20dagen%20met%201.0%20mm%20of%20meer I gather that Amsterdam has approximately between 135 and 140 days annually with 1.0 mm or more of precipitation. From http://www.frankdeboosere.be/klimaatukkel/klimaatregendagen.php I gather that Uccle (in Brussels' agglomeration) has 199 days annually with 0.1 mm or more of precipitation. These numbers are relatively close to and equal to the figures presented on the map, respectively, but both numbers are not based on the same definition of precipitation days. So I suspect that the figures used in the map are not all based on the same definition. Could the author of the map disclose the origin of the figures?Redav (talk) 21:42, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I absolutely agree on this. I have seen this error many times and I am almost certain that what you describe is exactly what happened. There are TWO ways of measuring precipitation (>0.1mmm and >1mm) and they are obviously not the same. There should be a source for this map. This being said, I have also had a look at the sunshine hours map, and it seems to be wrong as well for some places. Sources, please! --Polvuletz (talk) 16:30, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Köppen map
I have mentioned this already in other Wikipedia articles. The Köppen map of Europe is wrong. There are three "blobs" in the western part of Germany which make absolutely no sense. In fact, all of western Germany is Cfb (oceanic climate). There is no way that (1) the area around Münster, close to the Netherlands, and (2) the Saarland are Dfb, which means continental climate. There is absolutely no data to back this. Look it up, you'll see. Then, there is this clear green blob north of the Bodensee (Lake Constance), which indicates that this area is Cfa (hot summer oceanic). Again, this is total fantasy, look it up, this area is Cfb, just like the rest of the west. If any region in Germany were to be hot enough in summer to match Cfa, it would be the Rhine valley but certainly not this mountainous region. It's really frustrating, but nobody is ever reacting to my remarks in the discussion pages, so I really wonder what is the need for such a page if nobody ever cares when there are errors? --Polvuletz (talk) 16:17, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Canaries/Madeira not in Europe geographically
Someone insists on reporting Canaries/Madeira as been a part of geographical Europe. These are only politically in Europe as are many areas in the equator that belong to various EU countries. These are irrelevant to the climate of geographical Europe Weatherextremes (talk) 19:17, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

This page doesn't refer to "geographical Europe" itself but I agree here, although their political status is more different than other European Union overseas territories, but I agree. --TechnicianGB (talk) 19:25, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Temperature table
I believe the temperatures (at least the maximum ones) for Copenhagen are wrong. The source appears to be correct but they were typed wrong on the article here. Please someone doublecheck and correct it if possible or I may also do it at a later time however I have trouble reading danish in the source's link so it's better if someone who speaks danish does it. Syllynqt (talk) 11:14, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

A ton of unsourced information.
Where are the sources that prove which are the warmest and coldest places in Europe? I shall remember that putting a plain source showing climate averages to "prove" this kind of information is considered WP:SYNTH because the source doesn't specify this, it just shows plain climate data. I will copy and paste what WP:SYNTH (based on WP:OR) is considered:

''Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source. Similarly, do not combine different parts of one source to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by the source. If one reliable source says A and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C not mentioned by either of the sources. This would be improper editorial synthesis of published material to imply a new conclusion, which is original research.''

This applies to several users that have edited this wikipage. We should stick to Wikipedia's Guidelines when it comes to edit, not to original research. Also combining 2 sources to reach a conclusion not stated by any source is still OR/SYNTH just as shown in the wikipage of WP:SYNTH. We need reliable sources that prove such statements. Pfarla (talk) 00:28, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Seattle and Rennes comparison
@RetroCosmos, I see you have reverted my deletion on Seattle and Rennes. The climates are both West coast climates, so they don't work well in this comparison (the comparsion is specifically about comparing Western Europe to east-side or continental climates). Also the 'sourced content' is 'sourced' to the climate data of Yakutsk. Uness232 (talk) 09:42, 18 December 2023 (UTC)


 * Hi there, sorry about that. No further objections from me then.RetroCosmos (talk) 09:45, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the quick reply and your understanding. Uness232 (talk) 09:48, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

Deleting unsourced data and leaving unsourced data?
Hello. I would like to discuss the edits of both and.

My question is, why did you (Weatherextremes) delete reliable and sourced AEMET OpenData inserted by the other user (Farell37) just to add unsourced stuff mentioning some places in Greece?

Also, where's the source that mentions which are the coldest and warmest places by annual T in Europe that are not WP:OR? This page has been suffering a lot of WIKI:BIASED edits (I'm not accusing none of you) but you can see in the edit history of this page how this happens frequently, from users and IPs that come with "Climate Nationalism" edits as well, trying to shoehorn places that are either unsourced or surpassed by other sourced places but still mentioned for no reason.

This page has also loads of unsourced data as other users have pointed in the talk page. Please discuss over this matter as this page needs a huge cleanup and please discuss why would you delete sourced data. Several places in Greece (this time edited by Weatherextremes) have NOA OpenData for barely few years and no one deletes them as it's not harmful, at least in my opinion. But I don't know either why Montoro's 15-year period of reliable AEMET OpenData source would be harmful or not reliable as it's the same kind of data and 15 years is already a good amount of time. The minimum I would say, as a climate normal is made of 30 years of data.

I'm just trying to make some peace here. I'm neutral in this topic. In fact, I have double checked the AEMET source that wasn't inserted by me but by the user Farell and he is not putting wrong data there. That's why I have added it back as it's properly sourced and removing it would lead to remove properly sourced data for no apparent reasons.

Please solve this in the talk page as required by GUIDELINES if you have disagreements. This page is already too messy, we are barely few Wiki Editors constantly engaged in Climate-related pages so it's better to agree ourselves and to fight against real harmful IPs or accounts. Thank you. WikiEditor1890 (talk) 12:35, 28 April 2024 (UTC)


 * AEMET Opendata is not quality reviewed and does not exist in the official AEMET climatic normals. Also i cant verify these means myself. I tried multiple times logging in to AEMET but to no end. If I could verify them I am fine with them being included. Regarding my edit on Lindos. I did not do a comparison. I merely posted a sentence that it can get as high as 22C over there. Someone else added the comparison which would be OR Weatherextremes (talk) 14:15, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * It's "not quality reviewed" do you have proofs about this? AEMET OpenData comes from the official AEMET site, just as the Greek NOA data comes from the official NOA site. It makes no sense to claim it's not reliable, specially when OpenData averages match with official AEMET averages and NOAA ones don't (not greek NOA, but NOAA) as explained by Farell37 earlier in a message I have asked him in his talk page. Find a good source saying AEMET OpenData is unreliable and we can continue. If not, that can be considered disruptive.
 * Also please don't leave me messages in my talk page asking me if I am related to the user Farell37 or to some kind of strange IP that has edited pages I have never edited. You have accused in his talk page too and Wikipedia is clear about WP:NPA NO personal attacks rule. That's not nice. My account is from 2020 but as you can see I am not even an active editor, why would I use a 2023 one?
 * I saw that you have deleted data added by another user, so that data must remain as long as it's sourced and you must seek for consensus to delete it, as it didn't disturb any other editors in the meantime except for yourself. That's when consensus takes place. You can delete unsourced or poorly sourced content, but doing it with properly sourced content is against Wikipedia's policies. Anyways, I have just used this for you 2 and other editors to reach an agreement, not just me. WikiEditor1890 (talk) 18:21, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @WikiEditor1890
 * Thank you for understanding that NOAA data and AEMET OpenData are different. The 1991-2020, despite being provisional, they are reliable enough and the official 1991-2020 values will be published in some moment. Also, you can enter on AEMET OpenData and see that in the link where it says the meaning of things, it says how often it is updated, which means that the data is raw, but undergoes changes and adjustments. Official values ​​may change, but they won't drastically change.
 * I had a discuss with Weatherextremes 2 times about climate data too and we didn't reach an agreement, as he himself decided to end the discussion. Still I let it go
 * -First discussion It was in the Almería article, about snow and IFAPA data. IFAPA is an Institute of Agricultural and Fishery Research and Training and they have weather stations, but these weather stations are not for climate purposes and are not reliable as AEMET official stations. He wanted to put the IFAPA data and ignoring the purpose of the weather station. The snow, he putted some sources that for me were suspicious but I let it go. Thanks for reverting the edits also!
 * -Second discusson it was on Evrotas Valley basing on this source . These stations are not official weather stations, but yet he added into an Wikipedia article. I didn't liked that and we didn't even reach an agreement. But yet, I let it go too. Farell37 (talk) 19:05, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I did not accuse anyone. I simply asked very politely both of you. Well I guess it can't be helped. We might need to escalate. See you soon. Weatherextremes (talk) 19:14, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @WikiEditor1890 @Weatherextremes
 * I agree putting the Vorkuta and Lindos here for readers to understand that Europe has a wide range of climate variety with regions as cold as -5ºC and as hot as 22ºC annually.
 * The AEMET OpenData It's not purely raw data. On the page when we open certain topics, they show how often it is updated and revised. I've already been doing the calculations for certain cities, such as for the period 1981-2010 in Seville. Incredible as it may seem, the AEMET OpenData data coincides with the normal values ​​shown on the AEMET webiste for Seville. In Seville's normal values ​​on the AEMET website, it shows that the average annual temperature is 19.2ºC. I had to do the calculations based on data from AEMET OpenData and it was exactly 19.2ºC as an annual average.
 * AEMET has its own normal values ​​from 1991-2020 and they are still provisional because they may undergo processes of change. This means that the normal values ​​from 1991-2020 may be a little different, but it is not a significant difference, as raw data is not synonymous with being wrong.
 * Regarding Montoro's date, it is only from AEMET OpenData and was added recently by AEMET itself. In fact, they added Montoro to AEMET OpenData this month. Farell37 (talk) 14:44, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah but I can't freely access these data to verify them. That's my issue here. Weatherextremes (talk) 14:50, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * An API Key is required to access this data.
 * OpenData:
 * You must first press on Obtención de APY Key. You need to enter your email, and then they will send you the API Key (it's automatic). Then, just access where it says Acceso General. Then, insert the API Key that you sent in the email in this bar. Note that it is difficult for non-Spanish speakers to understand the data and the context of things, as the format initially seems confusing. The values of weather stations is on Valores climatológicos. After opening some weather station, there are 2 links:
 * -The first shows the values ​​that were recorded
 * -The second shows the caption and meaning of each one as well as the periodicity that it is updated, in Spanish (English not available). Farell37 (talk) 15:05, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks I have done this many times but it wont work for me. I will check it again in the next few days to be sure. Weatherextremes (talk) 16:08, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't know why it doesn't work for you, but I hope you can access the date somehow. For me, it works very well! Remembering that it is difficult to understand a little, so I highly recommend checking what each thing means. Again, everything is in Spanish. Farell37 (talk) 17:24, 28 April 2024 (UTC)