Talk:Clive Edwards (politician)

Possible Copyvio
I found this page: http://www.mic.gov.to/appointments/new-ministers-/2008-hon-clive-edwards-revenue-a-public-enterprises-minister ...on the Tonga Government Portal. It's a profile of Edwards, posted January 14/2011. The profile is slightly shortened, but otherwise verbatim copy of the text on this page.

At first I was worried about copyvio, but the history of this page clearly shows that the Wikipedia text was developed incrementally by several editors. Also, there are a few "]" in the Government Portal article, in places where there would have been a reference in the Wikipedia article... i.e. it looks as though someone copied the text and did not do a thorough job of removing the references. Dracunculus (talk) 21:41, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * I have now left similar notes at Talk:‘Uliti_Uata, Talk:Sosefo_Fe’aomoeata_Vakata and Talk:Sunia_Fili... Dracunculus (talk) 22:25, 23 March 2011 (UTC)


 * It's not the first time the Tongan government websites plagiarise Wikipedia... Sometimes they even copy the internal links within the text, leaving the links back to Wikipedia articles. Aridd (talk) 16:29, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Opinion and Belief v Fact
I thank the editors and contributors to the biography, for the discussion and to find and publish applicable content.

To put this discussion into context also Wikipedia have classed this biography C-Class and Low-importance. This section is a discussion in good faith.

Content for this biography should be based on fact and reference to fact, as opposed to referenced opinions and beliefs, even if the opinions or beliefs are peer reviewed. These opinions are based on information gathered from a subsection of opinions/beliefs to the overall content matter rather than differing viewpoints that should provide a full, true picture. Writers have their motivations and prerogative for writing their opinions but should not form the basis, overall content and depiction of the biography.

When reviewing Mr. Edwards total legal and political career of 56 years, the biography focuses on specifically his Tongan political career of 18 years and names such as ‘Hitman’, ‘Hangman’ and ‘the most detested man in the Kingdom’ are published content as formulated by ‘opinion’ and ‘beliefs’. Fact would provide a contrary viewpoint. For instance, never has Mr. Edwards performed a ‘hit’, responsible for ‘hanging’ anyone and to say he was ‘the most detested man’ is an opinion and belief contrary to, for example, winning a seat by popular vote, to the Tongan Parliament as a People’s Representative in 2005 and 2008. In 2010 and again in 2014 he was beaten in his constituency by a better candidate, not because he was ‘detested’. If a factual reference can be made with regards to these comments, then the content should remain, however it is bias opinion and belief and the content should be removed.

Content of Mr. Edwards political and legal career in New Zealand needs mention as well as honours obtained while in New Zealand for services to the Community and specifically the Pacific Island community, however this has been dismissed as ‘probably untrue’, when in fact it is not, due to bias opinion. This provides balance and fairness to the biography, however the depiction wanting to be currently portrayed, is to create controversy and sensationalism from his Tongan political career that wishes to define his total career.

A reference is also made to a defamation case eventually won by Mr. Edwards, however contributors wish for the reference to remain when clearly it is libel in nature as it repeats part of the reason of the overall content of why the action was brought in the first place and eventually won in Mr. Edwards’ case. A request can be made to list all actions made by Mr. Edwards successful and failed if required, and it will paint a picture that most things said and printed against Mr. Edwards were libel in nature as found by Courts of Law in Tonga, so therefore should not be regurgitated on Wikipedia.

The request for truce, consensus and compromise is requested between the contributors.

The removal of opinionated content is requested with references to ‘hitman’, ‘hangman’ and the ‘detested’ statement. The removal of the defamation case as previously edited, is also requested to be removed. A re-instatement of his honours is also requested as it is Gazetted in New Zealand and Tongan law.

The writer will also research references to his New Zealand legal and political career to provide balance and only when suitable reference is provided will be published, and the writer will ensure its fair and balanced.--Kiwilegal 19:53, 9 July 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiwilegal (talk • contribs)


 * Hi Kiwilegal, A couple of points:


 * There have been some wild claims and unsubstantiated opinion in this article in the past. Its best to provide a references when editing Wikipedia articles.
 * Its fine to include opinions of academics and political analysts as part of a political biography. You are welcome to add more, but please don't add your own opinions.
 * Feel free to add more content about the subject's time in New Zealand. Bear in mind that the subject's notability rests on his Tongan career though. i.e. it is unlikely he would qualify for a Wikipedia article solely on his NZ careers.
 * I don't think the importance classes are given much weight these days. But feel free to ask WikiProject Polynesia to reassess it.
 * You are welcome to your opinion on the meaning of the 2005 election, in which Edwards won 7% of his electorate's vote after being appointed the minister of police. Many analysts consider this election to have been carried out in a climate of fear and intimidation. -- haminoon  ( talk ) 04:06, 10 July 2018 (UTC)