Talk:Closing Time (novel)

Spoiler?
I think the article should be a bit less revealing. I haven't finished reading this, and I was just looking at the article for other information like on the Catch-22 wiki, and I found the ending in the second paragraph. I would do this, but again, I haven't finished the book.-TheChrisParker (talk) 04:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

What?!?
The person who wrote this article has no idea what he is talking about: "the Sammy Singer character makes a brief appearance in Catch-22 as the tailgunner aboard Yossarian's bomber who kept waking up and fainting when he saw Yossarian trying to attend to the wounds of Snowden" that is not true. the tailgunner's name was Huple. Sammy Singer is never mentioned in Catch-22. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.207.245.71 (talk) 02:28, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
 * No, Huple was the co-pilot (he was fifteen, lied about his age to join the army, and pulled the plane out the dive when Dobbs went nuts). The nameless, fainting tail gunner did appear in Catch 22.  We learn his name in closing time (he mentions seeing Yossarian trying to help the dying Snowden). Czolgolz (talk) 03:37, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Yossarian's Age
I'm not sure that I agree that Yossarian's age is inconsistent with Catch-22. Heller does not reveal exactly when during WWII the events of Catch-22 took place. Though that could only affect Yossarian's age by a year or two it's somewhat significant. More significantly, remember that Yossarian frequently would exaggerate, stretch the truth, and outright lie. He claims to be twenty-eight at an ambiguous time of Catch-22 but he very well might not be. Based on the more reliable comments on the ages of younger men is his squad (like the eight-teen or twenty year old roommates he eventually gets), it is reasonable to assume that Yossarian is older than many of the other squad members. However, given the literalist conversational (and thought) style that Yossarian uses, his mental maturity may factor into the impression that he is older.

During Closing Time, I believe Yossarian initially says that he is in his late sixties (perhaps sixty-eight?). I don't quite remember all of the factors that made me think so, but I imagine that Closing Time is set around 1990 or earlier--which would qualify as "about a half-century later". Thus, given the unreliability of Yossarian's stated age in Catch-22 and (to the best of my memory), the uncertain time setting of Closing Time, Yossarian's age may very well be consistent. And, even if he was twenty-eight in Catch-22, based on his age in Closing Time (about seventy), I'd say that those fourty-two years are near enough to "about half a century". One final minor point: US involvement in WW2 was nearly halfway though the twentieth century; Closing Time is obliviously set near to the end of the century;they need not be equidistant from their reference points to be called about a half-century apart.

I'll try to correct or update my points with actual facts from the texts soon. Korbnep (talk) 05:49, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Themes and Character changes (Beware of spoilers)
I've quite surprised about this not being in the article already. Sex, Death, old age, circular logic are all greatly represented in the book but have NO mention. The chaplain's heavy water, the wedding in the bus terminal, the expansion of Sammy's character, Michael Yossarian are are roughly untouched despite the book being around for a whole 16 years. 173.70.194.24 (talk) 23:42, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

What is the plot?
So what is the actual PLOT? Not really described much at all. Can someone please add two or three lines? Thanks Ingolfson (talk) 12:56, 19 January 2011 (UTC)


 * 1) SPOILER WARNING I feel the same way about this article but I don't have the skill to write it in. Basically the main plot revolves around the PABT wedding. This is off the top of my head without looking back at the book but yossarian suggests the Bus terminal as the site for a society wedding after driving passed it on his way home from hospital, it's later revealed he knows the police chiefs there from the time his son was arrested. In planning the wedding they find a secret underground area that we learn more and more about throughout the book. Inside the door is Graffitti stating Kilroy was here and Yossarian says he'd seen that everywhere and wonders allowed if he's the same guy from WW2.

Lew and Sammy's thread is mostly about remembering the past and Lew's Cancer and crosses Yossarians due to the events with Snowden and other shared background from the war. Sammy's wife has died of Cancer before the book starts and he's always had a problem getting women which lew has always helped him with and alot of the book is them discussing this and Lew telling Sammy to live his life to the full and to find a woman.

The Chaplain is in custody for producing heavy water internally and spends the book intered, mostly on an underground train while Yossarian tries to get him out.

Milo and Ex PFC Wintergreen are trying to sell planes to the government and are taking out pattents on the chaplain. Milos son M2 is to be married in the terminal. M2, like yossarians micheal is nothing like his father.

For reasons I can't remember, an Idiot code named little prick is being made president after the removal of the previous president and is being trained by a group of people on how to be president and is expected at the wedding. He spends the whole time playing computor games and lauches a nuclear attack towards the end of the book which has people being sent into the underground chambers.

Theres a very Brief thread about George C Tilyou 'living' in hell where he's quite happy and is running his theme park still with lots of notable dead people. Yossarian ends up here briefly in what I took to be a panic attack or simmillar whilst exploring tunnels. Towards the end his house starts sinking suggesting that not even hell is forever.

Whilst Yossarian and Milo are watching a computor prediction of the wedding the program has the sun turn black which the computor operator says is a glitch that when fixed comes back. While they're still at the terminal the alarm goes of signifying the nuclear strike and they flee into the tunnels which consist of rapid elevators and escelators. the Chaplian is effectively turned lose at the nuclear alarm and is seem by yossarian heading up the escelators, on seeing him he swears at yossarian carries on for the surface in his rush to get a bus home to his wife in Kenosha. around this time Yossarian also learns that Kilroy is dead and when he asks if it was Vietnamm he's told it was Cancer, of pretty much every kind and that it's natural causes. Yossarian decides that he'd rather chance it on the surface with his pregnant girl friend (I told you I was bad at this, I've not mentioned that yet) than try and live for ever underground, I took this to be a moment he realised he didn't actually want to live forever, but that's my take on it. His son however continues down into the shelter.

That is roughly the plot of this book, it might not be entirely in order but thats how I remember it.(Morcus (talk) 00:15, 2 February 2012 (UTC))

Anachronisms
Referring to: “This is similar to the anachronisms in the first novel, such as the computer that promotes Major Major Major Major.” -- This is not an inconsistency. A “Computer” during WWII referred to a position rather than a machine. In fact, the computers of today are named after their human predecessors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ron g (talk • contribs) 20 April 2006


 * Sorry, it's a mechanical computer. Of IBM make, even. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.168.57.47 (talk • contribs) 25 April 2006

Wasn't the IBM machine mechanical and electrical? I can't remember... Also, I removed a statement saying that the book is very "Jewish" in viewpoint. TaylorSAllen 00:39, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, it is. The fact that several of the characters are Jewish is mentioned all the time throughout the book. Saying that it is "Jewish in viewpoint" might not be the best way of putting it, but it is information one might certainly argue belongs in the article. Any suggestions on how to phrase it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.210.118 (talk) 21:23, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Cover
I recognise the silhouette on the first edition cover that is pictured in the article as the Danse Macabre from The Seventh Seal. This is obviously a reference to the theme of death in the novel, but would mentioning it here be considered original research? --37.157.52.71 (talk) 13:10, 8 January 2024 (UTC)