Talk:Clothing sizes

I just want to put this somewhere where it will be seen:

Is it possible to get a good working size comparison chart for womens clothing, and include AUSTRALIA sizes also?

I am trying to buy clothing online and it is maddening. There are literally different comparison charts all over the web saying different things.

Come on someone in the fashion industry, Australia will owe you one... Please? :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.36.122 (talk) 19:34, 28 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Australia no longer has clothing sizes. The standards were withdrawn in March 2009 due to the lack of widespread use. Australian brands largely create their own in-house systems, some loosely based on the previous standards (albeit, transposing numbers so that a size 10 will use the old standard's size 14 measurements). Others just have their own, based upon their target demographic. Clothing standards are problematic anyway, as the original measurements were often taken from a group that were not representative of the wider population. For example, in Australia the original measurements were made by Berlei in the 1920s and used young women on the beach and at sports clubs to collate their data. See here for more detail -
 * Hackett, L. J., & Rall, D. N. (2018). The size of the problem with the problem of sizing: How clothing measurement systems have misrepresented women’s bodies, from the 1920s to today. Clothing Cultures, 5(2), 263-283. 122.106.191.174 (talk) 20:37, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Forgot to add, I am the author of the above paper and I have added it to reply to the question as it explains in detail the issue of Australian clothing sizes. This is my first time here. Thanks 122.106.191.174 (talk) 20:41, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Problems
This is a problematic draft article. It gives the impression that there exists a single standard clothing size in each of the listed countries, and that a simple table is sufficient to convert between these sizes. It is not that easy.

There are lots of other things that need work on this article:


 * it should use tables, not bullet lists
 * it should provide a source for the quoted data
 * it should not simply copy the list of external links from the EN 13402 article, which are mostly not relevant to this article
 * the word "international" in the article title is redundant
 * the use of title case in headings violates the Wikipedia Manual of Style.

I actually don't think that Wikipedia should aim to provide a simple conversion table, as they are all necessarily flawed. What would be helpful would be descriptions of how to convert between body dimensions and particular national sizes, but only with adequate references. Markus Kuhn 09:07, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It does provide a a good general rule of thumb, but yeah... fixing up stuff needed by "somebody". Mathmo Talk 06:52, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Ok, iv corrected the information in this article. It now fits with the generally agreed standards that i could find on fashion websites. Iv also made it very clear that this is a rough guide only in the opening section. 82.3.151.246 14:24, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Where are the rest of the sizes? For example men's 3XL and up? How do the dress, XL and collar sizes etc convert to absolute chest/bust, waist and hip measurements? — comment added by BletchleyPark (talk • contribs) 12:17, 20 June 2013 (UTC)

Men's shoe sizes not correct
I'm no expert here, but I do know that English size 8 is size 42 in continental Europe. This table can't be right. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pawebster (talk • contribs) 06:30, 15 September 2007 (UTC) Size

Chest Size (in Inches) Chest Size (in cm) Waist Size (in Inches) Waist Size (in cm) Jacket Length (in inches) Jacket Length (in cm) Sleeve Length (in inches)

Sleeve Length (in cm) S 36 92 32 81 30 76 18 46 M 38 97 34 87 31 79 19 48 L 40 102 36 92 32 81 20 51 XL 42 107 38 97 33 84 21 53 XXL 44 112 40 102 34 87 22 56 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.189.67.55 (talk) 17:10, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Women's clothing sizes
I've noticed that a UK size 4 is a US size 2, yet on the size zero page it says that a UK size 4 is a US size 0. That doesn't seem right.. well, to me at least. Is it supposed to be that way or..?

A UK size 4 is actually more like a US size 00 in terms of measurements. The measurement for a UK size 4 are roughly 30-23-32, I cannot believe the US could have 1-2 sizes smaller than those measurements. Size 4 is the UK's smallest size, in fact it's very hard to find. You can find plenty of US size 0's and 2's, so a UK size 4 has to be more like a US size 00. It's just common sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dee26 (talk • contribs) 00:09, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I think they have the NZ sizes incorrect as well; a NZ 14 is not a UK 12, it's more likely to be the other way around! I also think the UK women's sizes have gone weird in the last year or so, they seem to be made for the male figure - ie very skinny legs and comparatively large waist... I hope this is not due to the European Union standardising mentioned in the article. 118.93.218.64 (talk) 02:58, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Something wrong?
There must be something wrong. On the German Wikipedia site it is mentioned that Italian sizes are 3 numbers higher than the German ones. Meaning a German 38 is an Italian 44.

This is a German 38:	Bust 86-89 cm / Waist: 70-73 cm / Hip: 96-98 cm

With an average height of 164 to 170 cm.

And that would be 12 at the bust, 9 at the waist, 14 at the hips. Seems to me that these girls and sizes defer somewhat ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.158.158.155 (talk) 15:22, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Women's clothing sizes
A couple of month's ago, it was on the news that all European sizes became one size bigger (ie. 36 became 34, 40 became 38 etc) so a European 34 is now a USA size 0. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.116.1.128 (talk) 08:55, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Definitely not, it is just a natural process. Formal measurements stay the same and US 0 is hardly EU 34. It is more like EU 30 or 32. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.220.216.13 (talk) 16:37, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

These sizes definitely seem to be wrong in the conversion from US sizes to UK/EU. For example the page lists UK sizes as being the US size plus six, so a USA 2 is a UK 8 and a USA 4 is a UK 10. Whereas, the conversion charts for Overstock.com and ebay.com both list the UK size as being only two greater than the US size. The John Lewis website in the UK lists UK sizes as being 4 greater than the US equivalent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.75.4.251 (talk) 00:54, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

The conversion graph for womens clothing sizes is definitely wrong. I regularly buy clothes from the UK and US, and a US 4 is definitely a UK 8. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.236.232.206 (talk) 02:59, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Men size - Europe vs. UK/US
So far I've only seen meseurments in numbers. However (most) stores operates with S, M, L, XL and so forth, even in Europe. Is this kind of marking the same messurments in both Europe, UK and US? --84.202.208.245 (talk) 18:53, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

S, M, L, etc. has different meanings in different countries. An L shirt made in Indonesia is larger than an L shirt made in China, but smaller than an L shirt made and sold in Europe, or Canada. A better size would be a number since centimetres or inches have the same lengths the world over. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.197.120.149 (talk) 07:31, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Women's clothing sizes - External link
Hi I added a link to www.knowmysize.net/advice/sizes.aspx which is an informational page comparing the sizes of UK high street stores showing where they differ from EN 13402. It is not a sales or promotional page and performs a similar function to the other external links. The difference being they are generalised US pages where as my link was to help UK buyers to understand the differences between the stores they do/can shop in. Can this link be reinstated? --KnowMYsize (talk) 17:27, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

A REPLY:

I see exactly where you're coming from here, what you really ought to do is learn the data on the webpage, and put the information learnt into the wikipedia artical as you see best without referencing that website what so ever. That way you safely avoid wikipedia's filtering and removal bots. Its all about perfection on wikipedia, and a link to that website is untolerable, as useful as it is, wikipedia's policy cannot allow for it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MACHINAENIX (talk • contribs) 16:53, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

And nothing worse than clicking on a link that takes you to a web page that has been deleted or changed. 46.208.222.181 (talk) 00:24, 27 January 2015 (UTC)

Men's clothing sizes from the US Army
Men's clothing sizes were standardized by the US Army to permit purchasing contracts. More references would be needed to add this to the article.--DThomsen8 (talk) 12:46, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

In the tables there really ought to be units somewhere,...
32 5 2 6 mean nothing on their own, please can somewhere put another 2 rows or columns into the tables labelled (metric cm ) and (imperial inch) so a clear conversion can be made using the table between a non arbituary units like cm which any can measure using a ruler and arbitary nuits that all the bloody shops and this artical seem to use. Its really important to include units people!!! otherwise you're leaving dimensions open to interpretation. Which is plain bad, why does it take a physicist to have to come along and clear this all up???

Length unit

Sizing systems also differ in what units of measurement they use. This also results in different increments between shoe sizes because usually, only "full" or "half" sizes are made.

The following length units are commonly used today to define shoe-size systems:

mm). This unit is the base for the English and the U.S. sizing system.
 * The Paris point equals to ⅔ centimetres (6.6 mm or ~0.26 in). Usually, only full sizes are made, resulting in an increment of ⅔ centimetre. This unit is commonly used in Continental Europe.
 * The barleycorn is an old English unit that equals to ⅓ inch (8.46 mm). Half sizes are commonly made, resulting in an increment of 1⁄6 inch (4.23
 * Further, metric measurements in centimetres (cm) or millimetres (mm) are used. The increment is usually 0.5 cm (5 mm or ~0.20 in), which is between the step size of the Parisian and the English system. It is used with the international Mondopoint system and with the Asian system.

This does not explain why size 11 in one U-country is size 12 in the other U-country.

'Norris' and 'Renker' Scale
Does anyone really believe these are legitimate sizes for women's clothing? A quick google didn't show anything to suggest they exist, never mind in widespread use. They strike me as vandalism which has slipped under the radar. 84.198.212.164 (talk) 17:27, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Children's Sizes Missing
Need to add.--188.238.232.193 (talk) 20:12, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Didn't answer the basic questions I had about clothing sizes
Examples: what does 29 x 30 on a pair of mens' jeans in the United States represent? On women's pants in the US, what does a 2 represent? In Europe, what does 40 represent for women's pants sizes? Etc.

It would be helpful to have information from these two videos in this page, because they answer some of these questions.

Video 1 Video 2

Should cover:
 * Vanity sizing
 * Origin of sizing
 * Differing sizes by manufacturer and why
 * Sizing bias towards poor white women (see video 1)

Alexgleason (talk) 04:09, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Can we have the topic of Jean size?
By looking at this article, it won't fit for Jeans. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.38.105.161 (talk) 02:07, 13 September 2017 (UTC)


 * ل 37.238.60.21 (talk) 08:49, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

Inside leg measurements in women's "German" sizes incorrect
The inside leg measurements in the German/Scandinavian sizes table for women's clothing are obviously wrong. I don't know where this data came from, but it needs correcting - or at the very least removing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JaneVannin (talk • contribs) 17:39, 25 June 2022 (UTC)