Talk:Clotilda (slave ship)

Dates
There is conflicting info from several sources on the correct year date for the Clotilde's landing in Mobile. In addition to primary source cited in the article that gives 1859 as the date, the second source gives the date as July 9, 1860. The Library of Congress article gives a date of July 9, 1860. The Encyclopedia of Alabama article gives a date of July 8, 1860. Delany's The Story of Mobile does not give any sailing dates but states that the bet was made in 1859. Thomason's Mobile: The New History of Alabama's First City gives the arrival date as 1860, but does not specify the day or month.  Altairisfar talk  15:39, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The arrival at Dahomey, on May 15, 1859, implies the arrival in Mobile Bay was in July 1859 (not 1860). Perhaps if the wreck of the copper hull were found, then some artefacts dated 1860 would refute the 1859 landing. There might be some complex explanation for the 1-year gap. Researchers from UWF found galleons in Pensacola Bay (40 miles away), dated to 1559 (300 years earlier) as evidence Pensacola was the first European settlement in the mainland U.S. area, by Tristan de Luna in August 1559. For the founding year of the Mobile Cowbellions, there is a similar year-conflict, of 1830/1831, apparently because of impromptu partying on New Year's Eve 1830, followed by a planned party on the following New Year's Eve, 1831. Similar complexity is even common today: in the Amanda Knox case, her roommate's 2 mobile phones were found at separate times, the 1st in a garden lawn area about 1 km (.6 mi) from their house, but the 2nd phone was found (by someone else) ringing in the garden bushes, when Knox called her roommate (for 16 seconds), noting the phone "rang and rang" but Meredith could not answer. The fact that the 2nd phone was found separately, ringing, was important: it proved Knox called her missing roommate before police arrived, plus Knox and Sollecito were accused of turning off their phones to avoid cell-station detection, but whoever hid Meredith's phones left her phone turned on. Similarly for Clotilde, there might be some major reason which will decide the Clotilde conflict of years 1859/1860, such as hurricanes or other events. Also, some sources had Cudjo Lewis as age 114 years, others as 94. -Wikid77 (talk) 20:28, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Added see-also La Amistad
I have added Spanish cargo ship La Amistad to the see-also section, noting the rebellion of slaves from the Tecora slave ship. Perhaps other similar ships could be added. Also, this would be a good case for a navbox (or navpage) linking several slave ships into this article. -Wikid77 (talk) 20:28, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Revisionist historians
This article has a section stating that there is no evidence to support the historical accuracy of this ship bringing African prisoners to America. But "Finding Your Roots,Season 4, Episode 9 " showed at 37:06 the Captain William Foster's journal from the Clotilda, which arrived in Mobile with the cargo of humans. It included his account of purchasing 125 humans from the King of Dahomey. It includes newspaper articles from The Southerner from July 14, 1860 announcing the arrival of the Africans. It says the Clotilda arrived in Mobile July 9, 1860, with 110 Africans, and that this was the last slave ship to arrive in America. It includes the Pittsburgh Post in 1894 with an account of the bet which led to the smuggling.The article at present seems unencyclopedic and POV. by denying the historicity of the Clotilda. O propose to remove "Whether the Clotilda story is true, and to what extent it is based on any real occurrence, may never be known." This is attested and documented history, not a legend, fairy tale, or fable. (Apologies to the other wannabe "last slave ship." Edison (talk) 04:25, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree that the article needs some cleaning up there. This al.com article has some detailed information with sources (including some primary, such as the captain's hand written journal) that would help. Earthsound (talk) 05:36, 24 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I agree, this was not a myth. Parkwells (talk) 17:15, 27 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Edison, glad you caught the Henry Louis Gates program, and helped us overturn the previous content raising doubts about accounts of Clotilda. I had thought that much was settled a while ago -but with your comments, I watched the program. Have also found a scanned, digitized copy of Capt. Foster's journal in the Mobile Public Library digitized collections, and added it as an external link. (Now I have to read it myself!) Pretty exciting! still searching for the articles that have been referenced; thanks for the link, Earthsound. Parkwells (talk) 14:10, 28 January 2018 (UTC)

article rename and redirect
If the article says that the proper spelling of the ship is Clotilda, Why is the page name Clotilde? The article should move to that name and a redirect should be placed here. TMLutas (talk) 21:58, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Cuz it's wikipedia. 22:33, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
 * No, we can rename it and move it to the new name, which seems even more appropriate given the likelihood that the wreckage has been found. Parkwells (talk) 15:22, 26 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Article renamed as Clotilda (slave ship). Parkwells (talk) 16:33, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Coordinates of possible wreck location
The coordinates of the possible wreck location should not be included in the Clotilda entry since this is a non-renewable cultural resource that is currently being investigated by both state and federal agencies. Please help protect what could possibly be the Clotilda.

Content about slaves and Africatown
There is considerable content about the surviving slaves and their community of Africatown. I think most of this should go into the article on Africatown, which concerns the community they made and their institutions. It would be better to have it concentrated there, rather than with the ship. Its story ended when it was scuttled - except for current finds and archeological studies. Parkwells (talk) 17:13, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

Removed Sentence About Wreck Location
I removed the sentence regarding the discovery of the wreck as they no longer believe that's the Clotilda (see http://www.al.com/news/mobile/index.ssf/2018/03/wreck_found_in_delta_not_the_c.html). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.81.203.183 (talk) 22:06, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

I also added a sentence in the section discussing the discovery of the wreckage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.81.203.183 (talk) 22:14, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Photo
Has anyone any ideas on the source and provenance of this photo? Click here for photo
 * Please explain, since you added it, how there is a 1914 picture of a wreck allegedly discovered in 2018. Thank you. deisenbe (talk) 22:22, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I was also wondering about this, needs to be clarified. May have been misidentified back in 1914, here's the original source: FunkMonk (talk) 03:38, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Yorubas in Tamale, Ghana?
That part of Ghana isn't a traditional Yoruba homeland. Or where the "Takbar" lived, if Takbar is a bastardization of what the Yoruba called the neighboring Nupe. Can that reference to Tamale in the source--a submission by an Alabama politician, not a historian--be trusted? Iaksones (talk) 14:06, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Needs an update with this news item
Alabama has agreed to build a museum to house artifacts from the recently discovered remnants of the Clotilda, believed to be the last ship to bring a cargo of enslaved Africans into slavery in the United States. The city of Mobile, Mobile County, and the Alabama Historical Commission say work will begin immediately on a heritage house in the Africatown neighborhood, where many descendants of those enslaved people now live, al.com reports. https://www.al.com/news/2019/05/clotilda-the-last-american-slave-ship-has-been-found-alabama-historical-commission-announces.html Peter K Burian (talk) 20:52, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Matilda McCrear
This news story, reporting recent research, suggests that Matilda McCrear, who died in 1940, was in fact the last survivor of the Clotilda. I know nothing of the background to this, but those who know more may wish to add to the article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:06, 25 March 2020 (UTC)