Talk:Cloud9 League of Legends

2020 season
Apology is this is the wrong way to bring this up, I talked with a friend who's a Wikipedia editor. Pbrks, you removed some of my changes. But the tone is still really weirdly blase about the 2020 season. I'm not saying this as some kind of super-hater of Cloud9, but it reads like it was written by a Cloud9 fanboy. The 2020 season was famous due to the epic collapse that happened, not the third LCS title, and you can find plenty of comments on the Internet to that effect. It should just say so! See 2018–19 Tampa Bay Lightning season for something similar. That article does not gloss over the Lightning dropping out in the first round of playoffs despite being heavy favorites. It's also worth mentioning the quirk of rules that made the good Spring split performance irrelevant to World qualification. YupNope (talk) 18:18, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi, yes this is an appropriate place to bring this up. For what it's worth, I have never seen a Cloud9 match (nor have I watched any professional League of Legends nor have I ever played it), so I have no bias towards Cloud9 or any LoL team. I have written the article solely based off of what I have read from reliable sources. I agree that, upon reading it again, the way I had phrased it before made it sound a bit biased, and I believe that it now is written in a more neutral point of view (NPOV). I'm going to bullet point to keep thoughts organized:
 * Unfortunately, "comments on the internet" doesn't really hold up on Wikipedia, and I haven't seen much, if any, reliably-sourced coverage about their 2020 Summer season being an "epic collapse." Check out video game reliable sources and video game reliable sources custom Google search. A search of "2020 Cloud9 LCS" does not bring up anything about their "epic collapse" and does bring up a lot of their 2020 Spring achievements, which is more evidence to support that the LCS title was a more important event in the team's history.
 * I don't consider the 2018–19 Tampa Bay Lightning season to be a very well-written article. It's basically a timeline/list.
 * The article does state that they did not qualify for Worlds in a NPOV: The early playoff exit also eliminated Cloud9's ability to qualify for the 2020 World Championship, marking the first time in the organization's history that they would not attend the World Championship, but I see no reason to add why they did not qualify due to LCS changes, as long it is short and reliably sourced.
 * I'm not saying that this article can't be improved, but I disagree with your stance on this. Pbrks (talk) 19:03, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * As a side-note, how is finishing second in the regular season and missing Worlds due to (strange) league changes considered an epic collapse? Pbrks (talk) 19:09, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Huh, so you don't watch LoL? Interesting. Well, during the first 2/3 of the 2020 season, Cloud9 was hyped up as the undisputed best team in North America, one of the best in the world, capable of making a deep Worlds run, maybe even to the finals. That's where you're seeing all those sources about the LCS title from. Then they went to a worse-than-50/50 record in the back half of summer split and crashed out of playoffs like a mediocre North America team. It was weird! Basically a reverse Cinderella story where the overdog transforms from a princess back to a servant girl. They technically finished second, yes, but their performance in July-August was worse than a second place team, they did not look good. I'd think that should be made clear in the article. Also the coronavirus meant that there was massive cutbacks in staff at places like ESPN, so it wouldn't shock me if the less coverage you see about the collapse part is related to that. Anyway the "collapse" really is the relevant thing to mention, just like inspiring underdog stories. YupNope (talk) 20:05, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I see. I've expanded the 2020 info, making it clear that there was a significant drop off from the first half to the second half of the regular season and clarified that there were changes to the 2020 Worlds qualification rules. I'll look into the possibility of adding more later, and you are welcome to as well, as long as we keep it neutral and don't delve into too much detail. Pbrks (talk) 00:06, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Cloud9 League of Legends vs Cloud9 (League of Legends)
The name Cloud9 League of Legends follows other naming standards on Wikipedia with organizations that carry many divisions in other sports. For example, the set of pages: For this reason, I think any divisions of esports organizations with their own pages should follow that same standard. Pbrks (talk) 21:01, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * FC Barcelona, FC Barcelona Bàsquet, FC Barcelona Handbol, FC Barcelona Rugby, etc.
 * Tennessee Volunteers football, Tennessee Volunteers baseball, Tennessee Volunteers men's golf, etc.
 * , unless the team itself is known as Cloud9 League of Legends (in the full-name proper noun sense), we should either title the article as Cloud9 (League of Legends) or Cloud9 League of Legends team. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 21:51, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I disagree that this must be the criteria. There are many organization divisions that are titled this way, without it being a proper noun. For example: Tennessee Volunteers football, Georgia Bulldogs swimming and diving, Baylor Bears tennis. Of course, these are all college sports teams, but they functions very similarly to esports organizations. Pbrks (talk) 23:32, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , those work because those are activities and not a proper noun/product. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:37, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I believe it is the case that they are known as Cloud9 League of Legends. See the first sentence of their description here. The LoL division does operate as its own business entity, so it seems that it is their proper name. Pbrks (talk) 22:48, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
 * , so it seems. However, I'd still like for others to comment on this, so I'll alert WT:VG. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 00:30, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * From a quick Google search, many sources I found refer to the team as "Cloud9's League of Legends team" or just "Cloud9" in cases where the article is clearly talking about LoL. However, the organization refers to itself as Cloud9 League of Legends (e.g. website or YouTube channel).  Unless there's some kind of precedent for rejecting a organization's own disambiguatory name, I'm leaning towards Cloud9 League of Legends, though it is not used in the media. Cloud9 League of Legends team would also be a good compromise if the former is deemed too confusing.  Yeeno   (talk) 🍁 03:23, 14 April 2021 (UTC)