Talk:Cloud Strife/Archive 1

Events in Nibelheim
I've just been reading the section on Cloud's fight with Sephiroth, and I'm not sure on the information there. The article claims:

"Before Sephiroth knew the young Shin-Ra grunt was there, Cloud had gutted him through his back. Thinking that Sephiroth was downed permanently by his brutal attack, Cloud turned back to tend to Tifa. Unfortunately, being the powerful mako-infused Jenova/human hybrid that he was, Sephiroth got back up to confront Cloud. This time, Sephiroth held the advantage, quickly sliding his sword into the charging Cloud's chest and hurling him back into Jenova's chamber where he proceeded to skewer Cloud a second time.

Cloud's desperation and pure hatred for the loss of all he held dear proved greater than Sephiroth's strength, however, and he lifted Sephiroth off the floor, gripping the blade in his chest and slinging Sephiroth into a nearby wall—which crumpled from the force of the impact. Sephiroth then retreated, taking Jenova's head with him as he leaped from the platform where he stood into the Lifestream below, which would then carry him to the Northern Crater."

Now as far as I recall, this isn't what happened. Cloud did attack Sephiroth from behind, but when Sephiroth got back up, he fled past Cloud with Jenova's head instead of confronting him. Cloud chased him and was impaled through the shoulder, but he lifts Sephiroth off the ground and flings him into the Lifestream; there wasn't any 'retreat' into the lifestream on Sephiroth's part.

The only reason I haven't just edited the article is because the description is so detailed, I figure either the article is referring to a scene in the Japanese version that got changed when it came over here, or my memory's playing up (it has been a while since I played the game). Could someone clarify this? Thanks.

Phoenix1985 12:47, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Your suspicions are correct -- these sequence of events are actually from Last Order: Final Fantasy VII. There used to be a disclaimer explaining the source of this version of events; it was so poorly written I removed it altogether. There are two ways we can fix this, depending on which version is considered canon:
 * re-add the disclaimer (and fix the grammar), or,
 * replace the two paragraphs in Answers with the FFVII game version; and note that a different version of events is told in Last Order in the Last Order: Final Fantasy VII section.
 * By the way, you should put new discussions at the bottom of the page. -- Flooch 16:06, 13 March 2006 (UTC)


 * My suggestion is that we keep the events from Last Order -- which are canon, being the most recent version of events, and being the way things are implied to have taken place according to both Last Order and Before Crisis, of which this is a tie-in. Also, Nomura and Kitase oversaw LOs production, the same as they oversaw Advent Children's, and LO was packaged with the Advent Pieces: Limited set in Japan. Furthermore, Nomura's even said that he would prefer viewers to watch Last Order before they turn on Advent Childrenn, as he feels that it would be the "right" way to view AC. Being that he and his team oversaw all of this, it's now considered canon, which we, of course, should go by on Wikipedia, only offering disclaimers concerning retcons where necessary.


 * As such, nstead of putting up an always-visible disclaimer (which may break the flow of the biography), we should have an invisible disclaimer that appears in the edit box, saying this info is correct (like on Aerith's page, concerning her name). Ryu Kaze 01:46, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I've gone ahead and put it in. See what you think. I'm going to put it at the top of this page too. Ryu Kaze 02:29, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Height: This is getting silly
What is Cloud's real height? The changes in the height value have been so frequent that I'm beginning to question whether or not there really is an official height.

I'm reverting it back to 5'7". That's what most guides tell you.

It is 173 cm (5’8ft) by a Japanese official guidebook

Fenrir picture?
What do you guys think? If I find a good picture of Cloud on the Fenrir with permission, or take a good screen myself, should I upload a picture of them below the Advent Children section? Just for the sake of being illustrative. --Kiyosuki 07:18, 20 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Great idea. Hairouna 23:13, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Ehrgeiz outfits
A recent change took off my addition stating that Vincent has an alternate outfit too. He has one, his Turks outfit. Here's a page with details.

Sephiroth also sort of has another outfit...him shirtless..but it counts as his 2P color rather than a new outfit completely.--Kiyosuki 02:30, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Omni Slash
I'm wondering, is it necessary to have a separate section dedicated to just this limit break? What do you guys think?--Kiyosuki 22:47, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It is certainly one of the most famous attacks in Final Fantasy and possibly in RPGs. I have tried to improve the section in question. What do you think now? --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 00:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Its nice. Good job. The article is pushing the 32k recommended limit (its right at 32k) I still stand by my claim that Cloud's character should be further explored than other characters since his role is so pivotal in the game, and since he's such an iconic character now. However, I'm gonna have to go back and maybe condense the storyline a bit. Not looking forward to it, but for the sake of bettering the wiki. ^^;--Kiyosuki 04:35, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Aerith death scene
I was just wondering why the Aerith death scene was left out on the FFVII story section. It was one of the most memorable parts of the game, and something Cloud played a large part in.

Mavla 04:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I reworded his story massively and added his exploits in the game.

I know its a bit long, but my reason for this is when reading his backstory....its sort of awkward without knowing the rest about Cloud's story. It makes sense to those who have played the game but to those who haven't or have only had limited experience with it...it made little sense.

If someone wants to shorten it thats fine, but I think its important that the rest of his story be told too or else it makes very little sense. And Cloud is a rather complex charcter to begin with, being the center focus of the game. So it shouldn't be wrong perhaps that his story be a bit longer than the rest. --68.233.141.149 08:41, 14 December 2005 (UTC) ( --Kiyosuki 21:58, 15 December 2005 (UTC), I forgot to log in when doing this. ^^;)


 * As they say in the movies, (dons the cliché cap and puffs a magic cigar that makes the voice three octaves lower) "There's no way to tell his story without telling mine."
 * I don't think this addition is that bad. And sorry for bringing this up so often - if anyone feels this addition is too long or complex, Wikibooks or Final Fantasy Wikicity might appreciate them. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 15:54, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree. Especially with Cloud being the center focus of FFVII's entire storyline, I think the profile is warrented in being a bit longer than usual. Its not that much longer than Aerith's profile too so I think its fine. Cloud's story is basically the story of Final Fantasy VII after all. There's so much thats interpretable as well that I felt it would maybe help some to clear up certain things that happened that may have flown over some heads, such as Sephiroth really being in the materia crystal the whole time. If you'd like to submit this profile for Final Fantasy Wikicity I don't mind at all. --Kiyosuki 21:58, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


 * the addition is good but I feel it to cleris you should edit that because many people can get upset.
 * Strifeheart 15:57 14 december 2005
 * In the trivia section you should also edit the thing about the love triangle "I think I can meet her there" is a mistranslation the original line says Cloud:"An answer from the planet I think there will be a meeting" Tifa :Yeah,let´s go meet or something like that, the word "her" is never mentioned so this is not considered a love triangle fact.


 * Its very subtle to the point its almost not in the game. But its been enough to entice Japanese and Western fans of the game into speculating about it and making various fan material over it. The fact is, is that Tifa obviously has a thing for Cloud, and although its interpretable so did Aerith. The women don't have to be trying to kill eachother to be a love triangle since they love the same man. And as for the last line in the game, the fact of the matter is is that his last line in the original Japanese text is highly interpretable. Its very difficult to translate since Japanese is such am emotion based language. But most Japanese fans got the impression that Cloud was referring to Aerith in the end. And since the North American/PAL version has it translated with the word "her" in it, as shown here, and since its obviously not a blatant mistranslation I think it pretty much counts.--Kiyosuki 21:54, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I was also struck by this. The Section on FFVII has a lot of info on Zach right now. He is certainly a minor character when compared to Aerith. Her death seems to have a significant effect on the development of Cloud's character. His issues with Aerith's death also carry over into the Advent Children movie. If there are no disagreements I will try to replace some of the excess info on Zach with some information on his relation to Aerith. --Kit.macallister (talk) 21:23, 23 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Nothing should be "replaced." There isn't even really an excess of info about Zack Fair. The section itself seems pretty sufficient anyway. ♣  Klptyzm   Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 21:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

General
A possible reason for Cloud's Buster Sword being wrapped in bandages in Kindom Hearts may be unrealated to the game's plot. My thought is that because the game was made by Disney, and therefor aimed towards younger players, the bandages may be a form of censorship, so the sword would not appear to actually cut the characters. However, that is just a theory. ~ Lord Sephiroth Lord Sephiroth19:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Are you kidding me!? You honestly believe that!? NO, that's not why they did that! That is a ludricrous theory that has no merit whatsoever! The added bandages are just to make it look different and cool. Wrapping bandages around body parts (even those that weren't injured) was a common practice of Japanese warriors, so why should a sword be any different? I'm not even going to bother continuing to rip that theory apart. Not worth my time. Kakashi-sensei 17:33, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

Pretty simple. The sword is similar of those in SOLDIER. If you encounter one, notice the similarity in the shape of the sword. It's just standard issue SOLDIER weaponry. I'd GUESS that it's standard issue because it's got 2 slots, and Cloud was SOLDIER 2nd class, so maybe that's some form of ranking system (because i think the soldier had 1 slot in his).

The sword is probably just the token symbol of the compelling protagonist in this case, i'd guess it would be to highlight the fact that he's some form of warrior, as well as some form of setting him aside from the other characters in the game (which all have very different and unique types of weaponry) JessicaX 5:29PM (Friday August 26'th)


 * I think you guys msy be taking this a bit too seriously. You know how Nomura is....adding hundreds of straps or bandages to a character is one of his trademark design quirks. XD--Kiyosuki 07:15, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I say this, Cloud's sword is a reminder from his dead friend, Zach, when Zach dies, Cloud takes up his sword and assumes his personality and continues on to Midgar, where Tifa finds him. But thats not what I wanted to say, I was going to suggest putting a section on the stories that take place after the game, 'The Maiden Who Travels the Planet' and 'On the Way to a Smile' to include thos in the VII articles, possibly adding a link to view translated versions in thier entirety...just a possibility... The Darkpoet 01:02, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't really care why his sword is wrapped in bandages all I know is that it looks badass (67.81.84.210 02:23, 17 June 2007 (UTC))

It was wrapped in bandages for the same reason Cloud looks differant in KH series. He's a differant CLoud, not the same one from FF7. thinks about it65.124.8.131 (talk) 16:16, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Omnislash
Why is there an entire section on Cloud's Omnislash ability? It seems completely pointless and irrelevent. Anyone else second its deletion? Kakashi-sensei 17:37, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Won't say it should be deleted, but it could use some shortening. Definitely not important enough to warrant a whole looong section, in my opinion. --Wwwwolf 20:14, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Trim down to a sentence at maximum, and incorporate it into another section, IMO. Perhaps a short section dealing with all of Cloud's limit breaks? – Seancdaug 22:32, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

Cloud wasn't born in Nibelheim
According to the booklet, his birthplace is Nibelheim, but that is probably for the pusposes of disclosure, so that it doesn't spoil the storyline.

The story doesn't actually reveal much about where Cloud comes from, but all of the information which he tells about him living in nibelheim relates to him being Sepiroth's sidekick, which was actually a byproduct of the JENOVA cells which he has within him. He is a soldier STATIONED in Nibelheim, but only makes friend ins that town, the original birthplace of Cloud is unknown, because again Cloud only stops in a hotel when he's in Nibelheim. (His supposed mother and father moved to the Gongaga after the fire which sepiroth created, and live there up to the game's "present day", while they still search for Zack (Aeris remembers them). —Preceding unsigned comment added by JessicaX (talk • contribs) 16:25, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

??? - 216.78.51.43 15:07, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

It is readily apparent that Cloud is born in Nibelheim and lived there as a child. The cutscene where the child Cloud and child Tifa are talking on the town's water tower are real memories, otherwise Tifa would refute them when she shows Cloud's true past in the lifestream. Cloud does not know Zack's parents in Gongaga and doesn't think that they are his. He doesn't even remember Zack until Tifa clears everything up, and Zack's parents clearly say they are Zack's parents, asking Cloud if he knows him since he claims to be a first class SOLDIER. Plus, Zack never lived in Nibelheim, so why would any false memories of him being born and living there get absorbed by Cloud? I think you need to replay the game again. --64.251.148.44 06:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Totally agree, Cloud was born in Nibelheim for the reasons cited by 64.251.148.44. Most people tend to have trouble understanding parts of this game, I've gotta admit I never saw that one.--DarkEvil 07:01, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Buster Sword
The buster sword is neither a bastard-sword nor, as far as I know, is based on the zanbato of Rurouni Kenshin fame. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.21.154.14 (talk • contribs) 16:07, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

In Final Fantasy Seven:Advent Children, Cloud's new buster sword is made up of six swords total. Anonymous 5:32 9/17/2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.36.186.181 (talk) 12:35, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Owned xD Aaron VII —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.37.81.227 (talk) 16:13, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Its official name is the First Tsurugi. It is seven swords in one. Also posesses no materia slots. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.154.32.212 (talk) 07:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Cloud in a dress
I think it'd be great to have a section about Cloud in a dress. He was so cute =^_^= -- Myria 04:33, 13 September 2005 (UTC)
 * There's a bit about it in Gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender characters in video and computer games. I think it might warrant a passing mention in the Cloud article as well =) --Wwwwolf 13:07, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Move the Zack spoiler
Could someone please move the line about Cloud's Buster Sword being "a gift from his departed comrade Zack" to somewhere in the spoiler plot area? I would, but I haven't finished the game yet. I don't appreciate a character death being spoiled in the intro of an article. --Marcg106 22:56, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. If there's no objections I'll remove this request from the Talk page shortly. --Gamemaker 14:59, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts II
I have the game and have played it now. I decided to elaborate a little bit on Cloud's role in the game but you may have noticed I've intentionally kept things very loose and nondescriptive, and I also decided to stay away from certain events that Cloud has a big part in later on. For the people who are waiting for the North American/PAL release we should keep it this way, so if anyone else has played KHII please don't elaborate on it further just yet.--Kiyosuki 21:23, 2 January 2006 (UTC)


 * You must have some nerve putting stuff like that into the Kingdom Hearts article.
 * Perhaps I went a bit too far I admit, but to my defense I didn't give away anything particularly spoilerific. Its been trimmed a bit, and at least I sign my own comments and respond rather than delete or post random attacks...on the subject of nerve.--Kiyosuki 01:32, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, on my defense, I'm not the one who deleted all that. Just proves that others also don't like individuals taking the KH2 storyline into their own hands.
 * But thats roughly what happens in the story. I played the thing myself. I admit I worded a bit misleadingly though. I guess they didn't turn the tide more than just arrive briefly before the trinity arrives on Hallow Bastion at that time and help out in general. However, I hardly took the story "into my own hands". And I never said you deleted anything. I'm actually glad it was reworded. --Kiyosuki 09:35, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Too long by far
This article is, um, extensive. I'd prefer not to do the actual trimming, as I don't know very much about the topic. Anyone like to step up to the plate, if for no other reason than that I tend to err on the side of brevity? - brenneman (t) (c)  08:37, 8 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Funny, I always find that it's much better to err on the side of length. Shortening any article is easy, even with minimal knowledge in the field, and can always be done without much trouble if you're a decent copyeditor. Finding more information, on the other hand, is a huge chore, requiring research, doublechecking with the rest of the article and other articles, cite-scavenging, etc. I'd pick an overlong article over a stub anyday; both are obviously far from ideal, but one's much easier to make ideal than the other, at least without a major effort involved. -Silence 08:53, 8 January 2006 (UTC)


 * At first this was a concern of others and myself, but now I disagree. If this article is too long, why doesn't the article for Link (Legend of Zelda) get any recommendation for trimming that goes through? Its at least 3 times as long as this article and has even been recognized for being an outstanding wiki. I feel Cloud's article doesn't need to go any longer than this as this cover's pretty much everything. But I also feel it shouldn't be shortened any more either because everything here is valid information. Cloud is a very prolific character in video game circles and his background is really complicated as are his numorous appearances and the mythos surrounding this character. I want to plead to please not shorten this article, a lot of blood and sweat went into this. His profile was extremely uninformative and even unsensible (It explained only the revelation of the character near the end of the game, nothing about how he got there or why he even came to that revelation). As mentioned, many articles are 3 or even 4 times longer than this one when centered on one character. Every picture on here was taken with permission from each source and I scanned the image of Kingdom Hearts Cloud myself.
 * I've even looked this page up on another's computer, whom had a modem dial up access and it didn't take long to load at all. A few tugs and trims ofcourse are fine but I really think more than that would be a big waste of effort.--Kiyosuki 09:18, 8 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd dispute that "everything presented is valid information" for a general purpose encyclopedia, such as Wikipedia. If Cloud is indeed a popular video game character, its not necessary to tell his entire backstory, step by step, in order to make the point. Wikipedia isn't a novel, we don't have to show rather than tell - quite the reverse. That said, I don't think that backstory has no place in a video game related article, it just needs to be much more tightly written than this. You've obviously put in a lot of time and effort but it comes down to a question of notability. Perhaps you'd consider movi

ng your backstory as it stands to the Final Fantasy wiki on Wikicities, which is a much more appropriate home. >Gamemaker 13:22, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay I'm in the process of radically shortening this article. Shortening may be an inappropriate term...more like condense. I do agree that now it may be a bit too long. I want to keep in as much of the detail about the character and richness of his role as possible while making it more clean and to the point. We'll see how it goes, we have nothing to lose after all. Give me a day or two.


 * Oh and for the record, if someone on Final Fantasy wiki wants to use any of the information others and myself expanded this with before I make the change, I give anyone complete freedom to do so. Heh, I have no copyright on these words.--Kiyosuki 09:50, 22 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Shame really. The articles great, and many things I didn't understand in the story are put clearly here.EAB 03:19, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Limits Breaks in AC?
The AC section says "He is also seen performing the Limit Break "Climhazzard" on Bahamut, as well as other Limit Breaks throughout the movie (he uses every single one of his limits except for two, Meteorain and the original version of Omnislash)."

Well, did we really see all of them? Braver: He did make some overhead slashes, but none started with the flaring blue energy which seemed to signify Limit Break usage. See his usage of Blade Beam, Finishing Touch and Omnislash version Something. Cross-Slash: The Kanji/Chinese word that signifies its usage never appeared, AFAIK... Blade Beam: Used against Loz's earth-wave thing, then against Sephiroth (presumably, what with that three trails left in the building roof) Climhazzard: Against Bahamut Shin/Tremor/Whatever, as mentioned. Meteorain: Not observed, AFAIK. Finishing Touch: I assume the blowing-away of Kadaj was Finishing Touch in action? Omnislash (original): Not used, sadly.

So... Yeah. Any information would be appreciated. --WarpObscura 10:44, 22 January 2006 (UTC)


 * He uses these:


 * Blade Beam
 * Braver
 * Climhazzard
 * Finishing Touch
 * Omnislash Version 5 -- Ryu Kaze January 26, 2006

Nanaki scene In FFVII & Advent Children
In the article it states that the scene of Nanaki and his cubs at the beginning of Advent Children places it exactly two years after FFVII. This is untrue, seeing as how when the scene is shown in the game it states that it takes place "500 Years later" and that after the scene in Advent Children but before the main movie starts it states that the following events take place "498 years ago" placing the scene in question 500 years after the game and 498 years after the movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mushrambo (talk • contribs)


 * You're right. Corrected. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 00:29, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Disputed
This is a response to the "disputed" tag and the "dubious" tage placed in by Phoenix1985, when making this edit and this one, concerning this paragraph:

"Cloud's desperation and pure hatred for the loss of all he held dear proved greater than Sephiroth's strength, however, and he lifted Sephiroth off the floor, gripping the blade in his chest and slinging Sephiroth into a nearby wall—which crumpled from the force of the impact. Sephiroth then retreated, taking Jenova's head with him as he leaped from the platform where he stood into the Lifestream below, which would then carry him to the Northern Crater."

I don't see what's to dispute about this. If you've seen Last Order, you know that Sephiroth jumped off that platform of his own volition, and if you've played the original Final Fantasy VII, you know that Sephiroth -- as he put it -- "became a traveler of the Lifestream" after he entered it in Nibelheim, and that he went to the Northern Crater from there. What's the dispute concerning? Ryu Kaze 00:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * P.S. If it's that "the events of LO are what Shin-Ra inaccurately concluded because they didn't think Cloud could beat Sephy" theory, then you should look at the report Tseng's reading when he gets to Cloud's page. It can be clearly seen that it says Shin-Ra concluded that Cloud did kill Sephiroth, which is why they reported his death in the newspapers (mentioned in FFVII). Their conclusion that Cloud did kill the man was the mistake. Ryu Kaze 00:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Phoenix1985 inserted his reasonings at the top of this page. You really ought to put new discussion topics at the bottom. ^^" Flooch 00:33, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah, thanks. I assumed it would be down here if anywhere. Ryu Kaze 01:42, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I was looking here and there's a few inaccuracies about Omnislash here...
First off...Sephiroth's attack in Kingdom Hearts is NOT Omnislash. The Ultimania Omega guide of KH calls this attack Renzokuken or literally...."Consecutive Blade" so I am unsure where this name of Omnislash came from. But it isn't that....

However Cloud's attack where he uses his black wing to fly around the arena and slash at Sora IS called Omnislash. This is again proved in the KH Ultimania Omega, and is the same attack he uses in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. They look exactly the same. So Cloud has Omnislash in Kingdom Hearts.

Also, Cloud uses Omnislash in Kingdom Hearts II where it more closely resembles his original attack in FFVII. I think this is worth mentioning as well. I think I'll go ahead and make these corrections, since Sephiroth using the attack Omnislash is totally bogus.198.213.57.8 19:39, 6 May 2006 (UTC)Makoeyes
 * Okay, why were the edits deleted? Especially without any reason or discussion? Sephiroth never had the attack Omnislash! Can you explain to me where you're getting this information? Because official material contradicts this, and Cloud is the only person who uses Omnislash..it's his attack. The Official Strategy guide doesn't list this as his attacks, and the KH Ultimania Omega lists his attack as "Consecutive Blade." Omnislash is NOT the name of that attack, so please tell me where your source for this is? I think it's more than likely fan made. And Cloud uses the attack Omnislash in Kingdom Hearts, KH:CoM AND KH II, isn't that worth mentioning? What is the rationale of keeping inaccurate information in an article?198.213.57.8 17:42, 7 May 2006 (UTC)Makoeyes
 * Not sure what happened there, but the info's correct now. Ryu Kaze 13:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts Section
The section about Cloud in Kingdom Hearts seems a bit long considering his role in the game was pretty small, maybe it should be condensed a bit. Apologies to the writer, but it does appear needlessly lengthy. Plebmonk 23:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not even sure this is the right place to put this, but Cloud doesn't have a wing in Kingdom Hearts I or II, at least not in full picture in the character section of Jiminy's Journal.

Thank you much, 198.209.157.168 01:38, 21 October 2007 (UTC)Ariel Artemis

Part of a possible solution?
Instead of revealing things in the order they appear in the game, it might be best to do it in chronological order. This will help remove redundancy and perhaps really reduce compresson. That way, instead of discussing everything that goes on in the lifestream, the article can mention his past and state, later, that "As they walked through the lifestrem, Tifa and Cloud learned the truth behind his past". &mdash; Deckill e r 20:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Cloud's Kingdom Hearts Appearance
Any chance we could get some sources here on where Nomura said this? I'm having a hard time figuring out what's true and what's not when this article and the Vincent article are conflicting. This article says Cloud's appearance was not based on Vincent's. Vincent's article says in the Footnotes section that it was. Since neither pages have sources, I'm not sure which to go with, but we need some consistency. I'm more inclined to go with the one here since it sounds more legit, but I'd feel a lot better if we had sourcing, and it's always best to have verifiable sources, eh? --Trance 23:41, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

This article is in desperate need of attention
If my plate wasn't full, I would tackle it myself. While not perfect, I recommend modeling it after Squall Leonhart or Link (Legend of Zelda). &mdash; Deckill e r 02:39, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * May I have the honors of initial compression? Ryu can handle the next phase of prose enhancement, and Hibana can handle technical stuff. :) &mdash; Deckill e r 05:26, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Good work so far, Deck. I'll help out when I get a chance.  I've done some work recently, but it's in such bad shape (and so bloated) I hardly know where to begin.  I think what we need is to come to some sort of decision on what bits go where; we don't need to be repeating the entire FFVII backstory and storyline in every main character article, do we?  Perhaps put everything in one FFVII story article and have each main character article have a short synopsis and the details pertinent only to that character, with a link to the main back story article?  Would cut down on a lot of the bloat.  What do you think? Kasreyn 19:51, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * HAHA HOLY CRAP THIS ARTICLE IS REALLY LONG 21:12, August 1, 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.165.181.89 21:12, August 1, 2006

Ideas for shortening this article
Well, I watch this page quite a lot and I was thinking. To help with the issue of the length of this article I propose these following articles to be turned into sub-topics. 15:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Other appearances - Can be changed to a sub-article about Final Fantasy VII cameos
 * Omnislash - which can technically be moved to Limit Break.
 * Love - For example, it can be made into a sub-article like Love in Final Fantasy VII.

Deleting the Love Section
The whole premise of having a separate "Love" section appears to be formed around taking bits of pieces of content which belongs in other sections, and bringing them together to cover "what fans think".

The problem being, while some of the content is cited, there is much Wikipedian commentary here and it is borderline Original research ( WP:NOR ). And the content is redundant, considering it is, or should be already covered in other sections, like the section that covers Cloud's exploits in FF7 or in FF Tactics, etc..

There is no reason the content can't just be lifted from the old version of this page and put in the other sections, if it is not already covered......

--Antelope In Search Of Truth 03:33, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

who was cloud based off of?
does anyone know the name of the band that the guy that cloud was based of off is from? *his name's Gackt, and Squall is based off him, more so, I think, than Cloud Strife.
 * I think you're confusing him with Squall. Squall was based off River Phoenix. Cherries Jubilee 04:48, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Diamond WEAPON and Rufus
In the article the placement of Diamond WEAPON and it attacking Shin-Ra is in the wrong place. This is what it says: "Unbeknownst to them, when the Northern Crater caved in, Cloud fell into the Lifestream, the spiritual essence of the world. Eventually, Cloud washed up on a small coastal town named Mideel, a town resting above—and in near proximity to—the Lifesteam. AVALANCHE discovers him here, being nursed back to health in a clinic, but he is catatonic due to prolonged exposure to the Lifesteam. Shortly thereafter, Ultimate WEAPON attacks the town, and Tifa attempts to evacuate Cloud as the others fight off the WEAPON. In Midgar, an explosion caused by a WEAPON attack destroys a sector of Shin-Ra's headquater's, apparently killing Rufus Shinra. However, the Lifestream, being unstable at this point due to the recent activities of the WEAPONs, bursts through the town and swallows up Cloud and Tifa.[9]

Tifa reawakens, finding herself within Cloud's psyche, their minds linked due to their presence in the Lifestream and through the actions of Aerith from within the Planet's life essence. Here, she attempts to bridge together all of Cloud's lost memories, guiding him through his own life in order to find the answers. It is revealed that the real SOLDIER in Cloud's place during the Nibelheim incident was none other than Zack, his now deceased best friend."

The part that mentions a WEAPON attack must be talking about Diamond and him apparently killing Rufus is in the wrong place. Shinra wasn't attack till way after Cloud gets his head together. In fact right after the fight with Diamond is your last trek into Midgar. And several things happens between Cloud's coma and going back into Midgar. User:J-Axe

This Page

 * This article is way too long, he is not even real. PrincessOfHearts 21:30, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for being a censorship nazi. I realize that the article is long, but at least it tries to be comprehensive. If you'd like to try and shorten it, be my guest. Axem Titanium 00:24, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this article is too long. It is also poorly organized with no summary section at the top of each major section. This article can be made much more readab;e amd accessible if it had a summary of the biography before the individual sections in the biography. --- Skapur 22:27, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Context?
Yeah, I know Cloud is great and all but I think the article should talk at least a little about real life. Like how Cloud is a pop culture icon and stuff, rather than just talk about in-universe stuff. Axem Titanium 22:59, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
 * how is he a pop culture icon? PrincessOfHearts 20:22, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * How isn't he a pop culture icon? To a great many people, he symbolizes the Final Fantasy series. He's won the GameFAQs character contest a couple times. Of all the Final Fantasy characters, Cloud probably has the most publicity, yet this article says nothing about that. Axem Titanium 21:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Note that this is a personal opinion. You would need some sources on this pop culture status.  Links to the GameFAQs contests would be a good starting place; perhaps also links to cons and events where people cosplayed Cloud, or images of him appeared in non-game-related media, might be ways to prove that he's popular outside of just us gamers.  Kasreyn 04:22, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

About the shortening of Cloud's biography.
It needed to be done. It's as simple as that. I know it's not perfect, but I felt it better to blow the old one to bits rather than watch everyone continue to ignore the problem.--Hailinel 02:24, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


 * i would do it, but i never played final fantasy VII i only saw advent children and played the ffVII sequels PrincessOfHearts 21:52, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I know you guys wanted this artice to be shortened, but did it need to be shortened this much? It honestly suck now.


 * Deckiller's fourth law: An article's quality is not proportional to its length. &mdash; Deckill e r 06:09, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, and the quality went with it. This article's quality isnt nearly as good as it was before.

GA Re-Review and In-line citations
Note: This article has a very small number of in-line citations for an article of its size and currently would not pass criteria 2b. Members of the WikiProject Good articles are in the process of doing a re-review of current Good Article listings to ensure compliance with the standards of the Good Article Criteria. (Discussion of the changes and re-review can be found here). A significant change to the GA criteria is the mandatory use of some sort of in-line citation (In accordance to WP:CITE) to be used in order for an article to pass the verification and reference criteria. It is recommended that the article's editors take a look at the inclusion of in-line citations as well as how the article stacks up against the rest of the Good Article criteria. GA reviewers will give you at least a week's time from the date of this notice to work on the in-line citations before doing a full re-review and deciding if the article still merits being considered a Good Article or would need to be de-listed. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact us on the Good Article project talk page or you may contact me personally. On behalf of the Good Articles Project, I want to thank you for all the time and effort that you have put into working on this article and improving the overall quality of the Wikipedia project. Agne 22:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

FFT appearance last paragraph
This paragraph is it speculation and should not be included. I deleted it since there are other possibilities, like the event took place after the FF VII story, or even the FF VII AC stories, or that Cloud is simply a parallel universe character who did not end up saving his world. MythSearcher 00:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

bill o'reilly should know that Cloud is a terrorist. 24.98.201.149 20:30, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Sentence should be deleted/reworked
"Cloud's predicament is not entirely unlike that of Terra Branford of Final Fantasy VI. Whereas Terra was raised to become a magic-wielding soldier under the control of the antagonistic Empire, Cloud's mind is manipulated by Sephiroth, using his Jenova cells to make use of him as a puppet."

This seems highly unnessesary, isn't referenced at all, and looks like it constitues for OR. It should be deleted, since it really isn't helping any. Actually, it would probably make more sense to reword it so it is relevant to the character, rather than mentioned a character that isn't even related to the game at hand. Disinclination 22:20, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Why isn't there a biography for Cloud?
I mean, the article is okay and all, but why isn't there a paragraph or two stating where he was born, his childhood, and all that? His childhood alone is integral to Cloud's personality (his antisocial behavior originated in his childhood, along with the little fiasco with Tifa in Mt. Nibel)--Notorious MOG 05:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not the place to provide detail character biographies per WP:WAF. Some backstory and summary is okay, but not many paragraphs. &mdash; Deckiller 05:37, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

A detailed multiparagraph super long analysis on his childhood is one thing, but there's nothing on Cloud's origin and upbringing, which like I said before, many of his integral personality traits and whatnot originate from his childhood. Hell, his decision to join SOLDIER, which is central to his character was made in his childhood, to impress Tifa, which in turn originated from the incident in Mt. Nibel. It doesn't have to be especially detailed, but if the other characters can have background/origin information, why can't Cloud? It's not like it's irrelevant. --Notorious MOG 06:06, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Delisted
This article is too in-universe at the moment, and it contains an unsatisfactory amount of real world info (much of which is speculative). It needs to be trimmed down, cleanedup, sourced, and it should have a good chunk of real world info before this is nominated again. TTN 15:14, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

Cloud's dates
It said in Yuffie's article that in FF7 you could set Cloud up on a date with Yuffie, Barrett, Aerith, or Tifa. The article says that she kisses him, but what happens when you take him on a date with the other three?

Last Order retconed by Crisis Core
Well Crisis Core is being played, and it's been confirmed by players and myself, to have Last Order completely retconed.

Sephiroth is tossed into the Mako pit by Cloud. Tifa doesn't wake up to have that touching reunion with Cloud either.

I won't change the article or anything because I figure you editors should talk about it and discuss it first. However, I just thought you should know, Last Order has been retconed.66.76.60.163 19:20, 13 September 2007 (UTC)Makoeyes987

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAcAQhlqwbw

Here's a battle of the Nibelheim massacre from Crisis Core66.76.60.163 08:15, 16 September 2007 (UTC)Makoeyes987

Reception?
Why is there a Reception section for a character, let alone a blank one? I don't think this belongs in the article, even with content. 172.165.236.120 06:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Since it establishes an out-of-universe context for the character. How the character impacted the real world is an important element of the character that needs to be included. If there was no reception, cultural impact, or other similar form of coverage, then the subject likely shouldn't have an article. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 08:37, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Redundancy in Transliteration
You do realize that giving the transliteration for a name (i.e. not a translation, but the conversion of the sounds of one alphabet to another) is just redundant, don't you? I mean, you can keep the article as it is, but as it currently stands, it makes the article look like it was written by an amateur. Drumpler (talk) 22:31, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * While it is technically a transliteration, it is also how the name was portrayed in Japanese. It was included because the character is, creation-wise, of Japanese origin. Other video game characters follow the same format and are of Good or Featured status. (Guyinblack25 talk 22:41, 4 February 2008 (UTC))
 * As Guy said, this is both common practice and follows guidelines. Axem Titanium (talk) 00:12, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Which guidelines? As I said, it is very amateur. And redundant. I know there have been a few articles which implement this.


 * But its not worth fighting over. I guess I'll just pick my battles. :) Drumpler (talk) 04:57, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, at a certain point, the article needs to display the original Japanese name of the characters anyway. Yes, it is redundent, but since the Japanese game did not directly use the English name on the display, I guess the redundency comes from the game, not the article. MythSearchertalk 05:55, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe something from this issue should be added to the WP:MOS-JP? About addressing fictional characters/toons/stuff that are of Japanese origin. &mdash; Blue. 08:02, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


 * MythSearcher, but it did use the original name. Just in Japanese characters. The transliteration sounds slightly different because there are some phonetic differences between the two alphabets, but the name is the same. Just like my name, "Derek", is phonetically pronounced "Dereku" (Deh-ray-koo) in Japanese because of the alphabet. Same name. Drumpler (talk) 10:18, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I know they are the same, but the truth is that the redundency is in the game itself, not only in the article. MythSearchertalk 13:50, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


 * You're right about the name being the same. What we're saying is that because of the character's origin, it is needed to satisfy the encyclopedic nature of the article. If it was used anywhere else, like in the FFVII or KH articles, I'd say it would definitely not be needed. But since this is the article about this specific character, it serves a purpose to show its original Japanese spelling. However, a character not created in Japan would not need this, say like Master Chief (Halo), but something like Link (The Legend of Zelda) would because of its origin. A lot of other non-video game articles follow the same convention of listing the country of origin's spelling and pronunciation. That's just how Wikipedia is set up, even if it does seem redundant in some cases. (Guyinblack25 talk 13:58, 5 February 2008 (UTC))
 * Another point is that the Japanese characters are necessary for the sake of comprehensiveness. One cannot talk about a thing of Japanese origin without at least paying lip service to the Japanese characters. Axem Titanium (talk) 22:23, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Second paragraph under "Final Fantasy VII"
The second paragraph under "Final Fantasy VII" ended with some atrocious grammar and spelling, so I cleaned it up a bit. I think it should be rewritten completely, but I don't know enough about the subject to do so. Neowyrm (talk) 02:53, 14 February 2008 (UTC)Neowyrm

Cloud's personality disorder
Alright, if somebody mistakes themselves for someone else, that's a personality disorder, isn't it? Cloud believed he was Zack for a good portion of Final Fantasy VII...so what's the name for that kind of mental problem that he had? Is it MPD? Or Delusional Disorder? It's not just simply amnesia, he literally took over another person's life and believed he had that person's title... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.100.214.180 (talk) 15:09, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

GA
These are the reason why the article is a GA.
 * 1) The article does not meet Quick Fail criteria.
 * 2) Covers a broad amount of information on Cloud.
 * 3) Has a good amount of refrences, from reliable sources.
 * 4) The vissualy pleasing/well organized.
 * 5) Tells the full signifigance of Cloud in Final Fantasy

King Rock Go 'Skins! 01:22, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Advice
Although the article is victim to edit wars, i do think that someone should semi-protect this article. King Rock Go 'Skins! 02:48, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Edit wars? most of the protections in the logs seem to be over persistent vandalism. -  Ca ri bb e a  n ~ H. Q.  03:05, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I metioned edit wars because it is a part of Wikipedia: Quick Fail Criteria, and yes I have seen vandalism on the page and that gives me an idea. King Rock Go 'Skins! 03:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Just as an outside source, a couple problems I noted with the article. Under his original game appearance section, there's a lot of flowing difficulty. It seems very disjointed. At one point, it's talking about him meeting Aerith, and then it goes on to talk about his past … and then talks about how his past is a mystery, and then we get some stuff from Crisis Core. Then, in the related appearances section, we get a synopsis for Advent Children. Ignoring the problems with that, why does that get a synopsis as opposed to the original game (again, ignoring that neither should exist)? Maybe some paragraph splitting in the other appearances first paragraph. The merchandise section obviously needs work (a bit too specific on a couple products -- there are a lot out there). I'm positive there's more about there to beef up the critical reception spot.

I would look at the Squall Leonhart article myself. Although his appearance section for Final Fantasy VIII, for example, looks extensive, a lot of it is about his personality, development, et cetera. The Benefactor (talk) 08:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism
This seems like a good idea. I think that article is stable enought to be a GA, but then you guys tell me, is this article stable. King Rock Go 'Skins! 03:07, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The stability criterion is there when significant changes are being made in the form of major content changes (i.e. big rewrites, structure changes, merging of content, or edit warring) not related to changes suggested in the GA review, not vandalism reverting. All articles have to deal with the latter, and the article isn't quick-failed if this is the case. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 05:39, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

GA delisted
The article does not meet the Good Article criteria, and is being delisted, effective immediately. There is a copyediting tag in one of the sections, and most of the sections are insufficiently referenced with inline citations, which is a requirement for GA. There's also a 'citation needed' tag in the article. A lot of the text seems very verbose as well, and the whole article could use an overhaul to make the text a bit more succinct and flow better. Dr. Cash (talk) 04:15, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It almost doesn't make sense that it was listed in the first place then, not taking into account the tags and whatnot. ♣  Klptyzm   Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 04:28, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This article doesn't even have an image showing this Cloud person in his original form in his original game :( JayKeaton (talk) 09:42, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think this is more linked to the inexperience of the reviewer more than anything else. The article shouldn't have been nominated in the first place really, and it simply happened that there was an inexperienced reviewer that happened upon it (not to impugn the reviewer in question naturally, we were all inexperienced at some point). Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 10:21, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Although in theory any article is capable of being officially GA listed. It would be very nice to see some of these "niche" subject articles be done up so professionally that they are good enough for GA. Certainly I would be very interested to see what this article would look like. I guess the fascination is that these subjects can't get the professional treatment anywhere else (like Britannica), so Wikipedia is the only place you could read about "Cloud Stride" the video game character as if it were researched by a team of pro researchers and written up by an English writing professor or whatever they call themselves (which is ironically probably is what is needed to get this one to GA, some professionals to give this article some direction). JayKeaton (talk) 11:44, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Um...I said nothing about the subject. I've nominated quite a few fictional characters (see here) for good article status and had them pass. I'm saying the content of the article, the references present, quality of prose, etc. were not up to GA standards. Sephiroth BCR  ( Converse ) 00:36, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe that the subject, which is a video game character here, is one of the major factors holding this article back because of the kind of editor and content it attracts. If you disagree then you have that right, it is a free country after all (at least I assume you are living in a free country) JayKeaton (talk) 01:06, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

So, any thoughts on attempting to re-nominate the article? -- The Benefactor (talk) 22:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Benefactor, I've been watching your edits and you've done an awesome job. I vote to renominate the article. Fantasy Dragon (talk) 22:19, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Purple or black clothing?
I'm fairly sure it looks blue. Does anyone have a definite source saying what it is? And why black? I can understand purple, but black? The Benefactor (talk) 07:33, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * The original picture looks like black clothing. Black does not necessarily means pitch black with no gray area, it is not a perfect black body.  Black clothing in real life reflects light, and thus it is more dark grayscale colour scheme.  It looks perfectly like black clothing if compared to real life, unless someone is extremely sensitive to low saturation, it would be almost impossible to tell from the picture(original printed version from the Japanese game guide, Ultimania, etc.) that it got other colours.(In which actually contains colour dots of yellow, blue and red.)  Also, in AC and DC, the design is really purely grayscale if you do not call that black, although BC, CC shows a very clear dark blue colour, in LO it is pretty black, too.  Purple comes from the original game. MythSearchertalk 09:56, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Using nowadays technology, I did found out the blues and reds of the clothing of the original picture is a bit higher than the greens. The RGB is around a ratio of 27, 22, 31 in some dark areas and 13X, 11X, 15X in some light areas.  So that confirms the fact that you are indeed very sensitive to colour.  MythSearchertalk 19:12, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Related FFVII appearances section (references and quoting)
Can anyone remember Zack's exact wording in Crisis Core? One of them I fixed, but the other two seem to coincide more with a translation of the Japanese, though we should be using the English release. It might just because I haven't played the game in awhile, but in the English release, didn't Zack say something along with lines of "If you meet Aerith, say hi for me." The other living legacy one I'm not sure about, but I could've sworn it was different. Does anyone have a reliable reference for this? I know he is in, but the only thing I have is the official site, which you can't link directly to character profiles. Still, his profile is pretty easy to get to. (access the site, on the left sidebar, click the fourth link down, and then keep clicking until you get to profile 13, which is Cloud). Can/should it be used if we can't find another reputable reference? WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 22:49, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Crisis Core quote references
 * Before Crisis appearance


 * Zack: "That's right … you're gonna … / Cloud: You're gonna … / Zack: Live. You'll be … my living legacy. -- is what's said at the ending of the English version (English voice actors, dialogue, and all that). As for the Aerith part, you're right. Will change. The Benefactor (talk) 02:50, 15 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks! One more question; was it "if you want to become" or "if you want to be"? That one is a but more simple, and just for accuracy. For the Before Crisis ref, I'll start digging around to see what comes up. Hopefully something. WhiteArcticWolf (talk) 12:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Appearence inspired by Guts from Berserk
How come there's no mention of Tetsuya Nomura getting inspiration for Cloud's design from that of Guts from Berserk? Buuhan1 (talk) 17:41, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * First, because it is unsourced, second, because it is original research, and third, if you have seen the cute cuddly Cloud in the original sketch version, you will know that there is no way he is inspired from the Black swordsman. MythSearchertalk 20:26, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Clone
Isn't he a partial clone of Sephiroth? I think he should belong in Category:Fictional clones, and if that's the case, Category:Fictional genetically engineered characters should be removed since it is a parent cat of the clone one. Thoughts? Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 17:55, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I have made this edit. Just want to note that I also removed Category:Fictional soldiers since it is an elder cat of Category:Fictional mercenaries. Hope I settled that. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 03:27, 3 December 2008 (UTC)