Talk:Clown

Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2022 (2)
In history section, remove

'In Native American mythology, the Trickster channels the spirit of the Coyote and becomes a sacred Clown character'

Nothing to do with clowns, reductive of native cultures, uncited and not explained. Yes, Coyote is a trickster character in many stories. I don't know of any traditions where a 'trickster' or living person, channels the spirit of coyote. But my academic experience with Native American cultures is limited to the rocky mountain region and the pacific nw.

In the following sentence 'A Heyoka is an individual in Native cultures who lives outside the constraints of normal cultural roles, playing the role of a backwards clown by doing everything in reverse.'

'Native cultures' should be replaced 'Lakota & Dakota culture', which is what is being referenced by the terms hyperlinked. Kiwikoi (talk) 17:13, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Aaron Liu (talk) 15:02, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2022
I want to edit things about clowns because I love clowns soooo much. However I see some grammar problems which makes me really angry! So please let me edit this page and pay homage to these godly creatures. Rocky Xu1 (talk) 16:02, 27 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:06, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

"in a state of open-mindedness"??
Opening sentence currently reads that a clown performs comedy and performing arts "in a state of open-mindedness" ('state' is a wikilink to 'mime') using physical comedy. Apparently this was a recent improvement from an even more obtuse version, but to me this phrase still doesn't make any sense. Is there some inside jargon being used here? Why does 'state' link to mime? What is meant by a clown having an open-mind, and as opposed to what? Surely someone with a closed mind is capable of throwing a pie in a face. Unless I'm missing something, I think the whole phrase can be dropped, as it's unnecessary to the definition and most likely covered by saying they reverse folkway-norms (another strange choice of words - why not just say societal norms? But that's another storyy) 2600:8800:239F:A900:F0D6:73E1:825:E100 (talk) 16:36, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * IMHO the lead is crap, doesn't follow WP:LEAD and I think that it should be re-written particularly as the phrase you have highlighted is nonsensical. Feel free, as my writing talent is poorer that whoever wrote that!! -Roxy the dog 16:44, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I too agree that a rewrite is needed. I know it's linked, but cryptic terms like "folkway-norms" don't belong in a lead. HiLo48 (talk) 23:20, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Origins
Many statements in this article are not properly sourced. An example is the section on origins. No source is given for the following statement: “The clown … developed out of the zanni, the rustic fool … of the early modern Commedia dell'Arte, … directly based on the rustic fool … of ancient Greek and Roman theatre.” There may be some truth in this, but obviously the origins of the clown are not so simple. The Wikipedia article titled “the Shakespearean fool” describes one line of derivation from the court jesters in aristocratic households, which is obvious enough if we think of the fool in King Lear. The Encyclopaedia Britannica adds the medieval Vice in mystery plays “The English clown was descended from the Vice character of the medieval mystery plays, a buffoon and prankster who could sometimes deceive even the Devil. Among the first professional stage clowns were the famous William Kempe and Robert Armin, both of whom were connected with Shakespeare’s company." Perhaps some more knowledgeable person could help expand this section? METRANGOLO1 (talk) 15:34, 26 April 2023 (UTC)