Talk:Club (weapon)/Archive 1

Knobkierie
There are quite a few different versions of the word "Knobkierie" going around. There's "knobkerry", "knobkerie", "knobkerrie", "knopkierie", "knobkierie"... Only two of these make any sense to me: "knopkierie", which is the Afrikaans spelling and "knobkierie", which is, well, close enough. A "kerrie" is something completely different :-) --Janto 01:30, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Both the terms hottentot and bushmen are distinctly un-PC, unacceptable and considered offensive to many south africans, I suggest replacing it with the more widely accepted khoisan.

I was directed to this page when looking up the meaning of the word "kerrie". It appears, spelled this way, in the book "When the Lion Feeds", by Wilbur Smith, page 4, St. Martin's Press, paperback, October 2006. Page 3 mentions "throwing sticks". --Inygo (talk) 19:03, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Police use of batons
"If an impact weapon has to be used to deliver lethal force, parts of the body targeted can include the wrists, crotch, skull, and neck." Deadly blunt wrist and crotch injuries? With a JCB maybe. Lethal force section removed. MrFire 20:50, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Mêlée
Is it really necessary to spell this word the french way instead of the english "melee"? that is the language this page is supposed to be in. --24.124.75.12 00:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)tsontag

Leave it as Mêlée, that is the original spellng of the word after all.~Anon
 * If we were to spell all words the 'original way', that would be the end of English, and nearly every other language. The original French was meslee, which comes from Latin, etc. Fastifex 17:03, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

Taiaha, Tewhatewha, Patu
I'm a newbie so I'd like to leave this to someone else -- I suggest including Maori weapons and linking to Taiaha, Tewhatewha, Patu among others. There appears to be a rich variety of Maori weapons. --djdutch 14 September 2006.

"Deadly" use
I am a little bit astonished at
 * "If an impact weapon has to be used to deliver lethal force, parts of the body targeted can include the wrists, crotch, skull and neck."

What is possibly deadly in getting one's wrists smashed ? Unpleasant most certainly, incapaciting very probably, but deadly ? Rama 09:25, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Removed. It added nothing to the article.MrFire 20:36, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Fictional blackjacks
I've removed this fannish-looking stuff from the section on blackjacks. It's quite a jumble, in any case. The blackjack was featured in the novel Tangerine, by Edward Bloor. In the novel, Arthur Bauer attacks Luis Cruz with the weapon, also by Nick Nolte's character in "Mulholland Falls". They are an armament of Butler, Artemis's bodyguard in the poplar novel Artemis Fowl.It also appears in the Thief series of video games as a non-lethal weapon and in the MMORPG Runescape as a nonlethal weapon for rendering a victim unconsious. —Eric S. Smith 20:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Video Games
The video game reference under blackjack really doesn't belong. There is already a wiki for thief.

Nj78 22:05, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

History
Wow, this article is a huge contrast to the mace article. It is, IMO, totally lacking any historical perspective on the use of clubs as weapons. Presumably, these were the first kinds of weapons humans ever wielded. RobertM525 06:48, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Monadnock Advertising?
Is it me, or does this include way too many references to Monadnock? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sub Zenyth (talk • contribs) 15:45, 18 March 2007 (UTC).

Shouldnt 'quaterstaffs' be 'quaterstaves'?

-

Monadnock was the original creator of the side handle baton, and the Monadnock references were originally intended to provide helpful examples of various design points or what not. Nonetheless, your complaint/concern regarding the numerous Monadnock references has been addressed, and the article has been rewritten accordingly in a manner that should satisfy you and not be construed as a Monadnock advertisement. -Neil_McCauley

Questionable tone
Interesting tone in this article... Especially on using flashlight as an improvised club as it makes it harder to press charges by the lawyers of the receiving end of the beating...

Does this kind of stuff really belong in an encyclopdic article? Not sure about 'pig work' either earlier in the article...131.207.236.198 11:48, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

-

The "pig work" reference vandalism has been removed. - May 5, 2007

rewrite
this article could use amajor revamp, the list of differnt clubs seem to all fall unger the catagory of police batons. The "in sports" secton seem out of place if not unnecicary aswell.Boatman666 05:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. This article is a mess. See my above comments quite a bit ago. RobertM525 08:47, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm going to take the plunge and move a bunch of content over to Club (law enforcement). It's just a rough dump, so it will probably need some editing. Janto 19:03, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

saps and blackjacks
Both are mentioned, neither are described. 86.132.1.132 00:31, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Club (weapon) → Club-like weapon — there's more to this page than just clubs —Ewlyahoocom 06:16, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.


 * Oppose. I don't see any reason why this article can't or shouldn't be purely about "club (weapon)". If the palm sap is too tenuous to be included, then it should be split off into a separate article, and possibly linked to from this one. --McGeddon 10:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose - If there was something that didn't belong here, I think that it would be better to request a split. Reginmund 16:49, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Support I'd hate to see this page split up. I'd like to see it renamed to be more inclusive. Ewlyahoocom 04:21, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Dissent-like reply. I don't think anything needs to be changed here... just define the current term as broadly as you like. The proposed title seems to lack confidence in our ability to do that. Dekimasu よ! 14:22, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. --Stemonitis 07:04, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Images
Why were the images removed from this page? The article used to start with:



which is a very nice illustration to use (but as a piece of artwork, illustrative of the subject). In addition there were numerous other pictures of truncheons, batons, bats and other modern clubs. It says that Hercalus sliced of the hydra's heads, not clubbing them

Robbins (talk) 22:28, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Lethal Force

Some have called into question listing strikes to the wrist or groin as lethal force, when delivered from a baton. Lethal force, as used in the legal sense, is actually defined by most states as "any force that causes death, permanent injury, or permanent disfigurement." In the state of Florida, where I am enrolled in a police academy, and have just completed the defensive tactics course, this is the case. I know most states in the USA recognize this definition of lethal force, but I am unclear about the UK, or the commonwealth countries, whose laws are different then my own.

Marvin —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.59.62.198 (talk) 03:09, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

The "Love" Club.
There is no such weapon. It is a joke... I cannot delete it because I cannot find it in the "Edit this page" tab. read it, judge it by yourself... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.164.217 (talk) 03:58, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Tools?
Is there a reason why this article refers to pepper spray, Tasers, and batons as "tools" instead of weapons? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.186.36.20 (talk) 08:06, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
 * A weapon can be a tool used by certain people to do their job.  --UsaSatsui (talk) 22:46, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Probably because calling it a weapon gives it a negative connotation. In much the same way that 'police force' sounds passive aggressive, whereas 'police service' simply sounds passive neutral. It's more of a deterrent in application anyway, whereas weapons intend to harm or outright kill with minimal effort. - NemFX (talk) 03:42, 17 March 2008 (UTC)