Talk:Cluj-Napoca Botanical Garden

Missing section
Isn't the map a copyright violation? Andy Mabbett 23:18, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I picked it up from the Romanian-language version of this article. (I've been translating Romanian-language articles.) Obviously, whoever posted it there already made the appropriate disclaimer on copyright. However, now that I look at the history of that page, I see that this issue is not new: at some point the page contained the following text at the top.


 * Am observat c&#259; textul acestui articol este preluat cuvânt cu cuvânt de pe acest site. La fel &#351;i imaginea cu harta.


 * În josul paginii se vede c&#259; site-ul are copyright "© 1999 DNT Cluj". Deci acest material nu are ce c&#259;uta pe Wikipedia (cu excep&#355;ia cazului în care autorul materialului este cel care a f&#259;cut contribu&#355;ia pe Wikipedia &#351;i accept&#259; condi&#355;iile licen&#355;ei GFDL). --Mihai 11 Noi 2003 20:37 (UTC)

In English, that's
 * I've observed that the text in this article is taken word for word from this site. Same for the image and map.


 * At the bottom of that page you will see that the site is "© 1999 DNT Cluj". so this material is not what we are looking for in Wikipedia (unless the author of the material is the person who submitted it to Wikipedia and accepts the license conditions GFDL). --Mihai 11 Noi 2003 20:37 (UTC)

The Romanian-language article appears to be originally submitted by anonymous user 213.164.241.16. I see that after Mihai's comment, that same person (or one with the same IP address) went back in and made various edits to the article, presumably so that it wouldn't be word-for-word, then deleted Mihai's comment. There is no overt indication of permission being obtained. On the other hand, I imagine that the owner of the material is the Botanical Garden, and they are probably happy with the publicity. I suspect that the appropriate permission might be quite easy to obtain, but I doubt it's been done.

This would not be the first time I have run across copyright issues in the Romanian-language portion of the site. I check articles I find suspicious; this seemed to fit in with a lot of other articles about Cluj-Napoca, so I didn't check. Maybe they all have similar issues.

Andy, I will place a note on the appropriate discussion page and on your talk page referring to this page. If you want to pursue the matter further, feel free. I believe that all concerned have good English-language skills - certainly Mihai does - so you don't need to know Romanian to sort this out.

If you need anything else from me on this, just let me know. -- Jmabel 04:10, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * The problem is that the copyright owner of the site (DNT Cluj) is a local Internet provider. The copyright owner of the images is the Botanical Garden however, I remember having discussed this issue as well at some point in time, because the person who posted it said the exact same images were shown on the Botanical Garden's brochure. The text on the site seems to also come from their brochue. Unfortunately the Botanical Garden itself doesn't seem to have a site of their own, so we can't contact them directly. The next best thing would be to contact the Cluj Napoca Town Hall, but I doubt that would really make any difference, it's extremely unlikely the Town Hall will actually contact the Botanical Garden and ask for copyright permission on our behalf.


 * So I say dump it. It's a pity, I'm convinced the Botanical Garden wouldn't mind (that's why I left it on the Romanian Wikipedia), but since we can't contact them... well, better safe than sorry. I'll follow up what's happening on this page, and will make sure to delete it from the Romanian Wikipedia as well if you concur. Just to make sure, if it gets deleted from here, please also post a note on my talk page on the Romanian Wikipedia. Thank you! --Gutza 09:39, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * Actually, under those circumstances, I say don't dump it. DNT Cluj has obviously had this content posted for four years without objection from the originator of the images, etc. I think we can reasonably presume that the Botanical Garden administration are aware of that and have not objected. I think the discussion here is clear evidence of our good faith and of our understanding (which anyone who wants to reuse this under GFDL should take into account) that there might be a copyright issue with the reuse of these images in a manner the originator would not like. My gut is to simply say that we will, of course, remove these images if any representative of the Botanical Garden asks us to, but that for the moment we are presuming implicit permission, in that they seem not to have objected to similar use in the past. Any other thoughts? Jmabel 19:07, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)


 * Hello! It's me who posted the article last year on the romanian wikipedia. All the information in it it is pure of 'general culture', anyone that visited it once can know this data. It is not that hard. I visited it since I was in kindergarden, so I don't think we should make a matter for this. The text was completly modified, but I could not extract the information included on their site, and include only other information because then we would not have an article. The map is in public domain, there should be no problem in using it, that's why it was created. On the brochure there is no copyright warning, on the website, we have only the copyright of the webmaster (so the way how it looks, but not what it has in it). --Danutz


 * BTW, I want to know what other articles thinks Jambel to have been copied form protected sources. --Danutz


 * Just noticed that the Hungarian Wikipedia page for the Cluj Botanical Gardens has the founder down as Alader Richter, witha citation. There are documents and pictures of a botanical gardens on the site before World War One and the transfer of Cluj to the kingdom of Romania. I didn't want to leap in and edit the site before checking first though. Don't want to rain on anyone's parade! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Toroboro (talk • contribs)
 * It is not a complete presentation. The first predecessor of the garden was the Cluj University, in sense they had a small garden. In time the garden was transformed, but the garden didn't developed much, to a real botanical garden. The reasons were mainly the lack of money for developing and WWI. Richter tried to develop the garden and made efforts more intense that his predecessors, but because of WWI he had no success. Borza succeed to create the first time a botanical garden in Cluj. On the Romanian Wikipedia you can read a complete presentation.--Roamataa 08:02, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The pictures are after WWI.--Roamataa 08:03, 5 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I've translated the "Generalități" section from the Romanian Wikipedia article. Will continue to add other sections in the near future. Nimirea (talk) 17:47, 8 August 2014 (UTC)