Talk:Co-princes of Andorra

Styles of Address
In the context of this article, the status of the two monarchs as co-princes is more relevant than their status as Bishop and President respectively. That being so, shouldn't the more relevant titles be used? That is, His Highness Prince François Mitterrand, not President François Mitterrand. Or something. I'm not quite sure how the styles of address work, which is (a) why I won't do this myself, and (b) a good reason to *demonstrate* how they work, rather than just putting it in the sidebar. TRiG (talk) 20:03, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't believe such styles are ever used. One of them is "His/Her Excellency", while the other one is "His Eminence". For what it's worth, I doubt Carla Bruni was ever a princess; i.e. Andorra is not a typical monarchy. Surtsicna (talk) 20:08, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
 * At the moment, the infobox contains the caption "Arms of His Serene Highness the Co-Princes of Andorra" below the coat of arms. Not only is this grammatically garbled (two people can't be "His . . . Highness", they would have to be "Their . . . Highnesses", but also a reasonably determined Google search finds no evidence that Serene Highness is even the accepted form of address for the co-princes. My suggestion would be to remove that caption entirely unless anyone can provide a good reference. Awien (talk) 17:10, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

"Rulers"? "Monarchs"?
The text refers to the co-princes as "rulers", but I don't think that's correct. A ruler is "one that rules or governs", and the co-princes do none of that: the Andorran government governs and (with the General Council) rules. The co-princes should be referred as "Heads of State". Being a little picky, I would also say "monarch" is not an appropriate term; "monarch" comes from Greek "mono + arkhein", the first word meaning "one", thus, "the sole rule". Since there are two co-princes, Andorra is not a monarchy, but a diarchy, and the co-princes are diarchs... (OK, the last one is being very picky...) 2.80.20.187 (talk) 09:37, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Like most constitutional monarchies, the government is carried out in the name of the co-princes. So they, like reign but they do not rule. As for 'monarchs'; good point; but two co-sovereigns don't automatically become diarchs rather than monarchs neccesarily because of the fact they rule at the same time. William III and Mary II of England, the various Roman and Byzantine Emperors who co-ruled, etc. were not diarchs because of this fact. JWULTRABLIZZARD (talk) 14:09, 15 January 2014 (UTC)


 * They are legally styled as "princes;" this makes them monarchs. I see 2.80's point, but I think this is being a bit too picky, LOL... - Ecjmartin (talk) 00:14, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

The role of Andorra itself
Given that the President of France is elected by the French citizens and the Bishop of Urgell is appointed through the process of appointment of Catholic bishops, does that mean that the state of Andorra has no role whatsoever - either through its government or through its citizens - in determining who its own joint heads of state are going to be? --Theurgist (talk) 22:37, 26 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, it does, as far as I can tell. Since "dual nationality is strictly forbidden by Andorran law", its citizens cannot cheat the system and acquire the right to vote for one of their princes by becoming French citizens. Surtsicna (talk) 00:36, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Majesty?
Is there a reference for the style/address "majesty"? Princes are normally styled "highness" as far as I know. Awien (talk) 16:37, 9 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I have found no sources for the style "majesty" in connection to the co-princes of Andorra but several for the style His Serene Highness eg. this page about news from Andorra: Andorra News Archive 2014. Oleryhlolsson (talk) 15:49, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Me neither. Making the change per source. Cheers, Awien (talk) 17:35, 10 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Was unable to make the change because of the format of the infobox, so simply removed "his majesty". Awien (talk) 18:00, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

Equal status
The article does not currently make it clear whether the co-princes are of equal status. The infobox lists Vives i Sicília as "incumbent" and Macron as "co-incumbent". Macron's photo is also smaller, and his details are below Vives i Sicília's. jamacfarlane (talk) 01:22, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Macron's photo has now been updated to a full size one, so this is less of an issue now jamacfarlane (talk) 11:04, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I've just realised the incumbent/co-incumbent issue in the infobox is caused by the design of the monarchy template jamacfarlane (talk) 11:06, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

Actual exercise of powers
I'd be interested in seeing coverage added to the article about whether co-monarchs in recent times have exercised any of their prerogatives. I'm curious about this because I'm wondering about the extent to which either of them even really cares about goings-on in this small country, that they would keep a look-out for occasions to inject themselves into its affairs. Largoplazo (talk) 20:27, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Capitalization
MOS:JOBTITLES states that plural titles and titles modified by adjectives, including “the” are lowercase. — Eyer (If you reply, add   to your message to let me know.) 00:05, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, I see that now.
 * I also see that there is now a discussion on that very subject. Do you feel you're acting in good faith by altering so many articles now instead of waiting for the outcome, which could be the opposite of the style to which you're conforming everything? It seems the sort of thing that would lead many people to hold off. Largoplazo (talk) 00:24, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes. — Eyer (If you reply, add   to your message to let me know.) 00:35, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * It was a trick question. You gave the wrong answer. Largoplazo (talk) 00:45, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I've been making these edits before the discussion started. I'm comfortable with my answer. — Eyer (If you reply, add   to your message to let me know.) 00:48, 6 March 2020 (UTC)