Talk:Coastal waters

Change redirect?
Hi, User:MB I feel that this page might be better off to be redirected to coast or to marine coastal ecosystem (the latter article is fairly new, created by User:Epipelagic; I only saw it for the first time today). It seems to me that territorial waters is more of a political/admin term whereas coastal waters would refer more to coastal ecosystems? EMsmile (talk) 21:29, 26 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi again User:MB, I've checked this question with a "coast expert" (who also gave inputs into the article coast a few months ago) and here's their opinion: "marine coastal ecosystems is the best option (under 'overview' in para 2 it talks about coastal seas). Territorial waters is not appropriate as they can stretch out dozens kilometers away from the shore into the pelagic." - So I think a redirect to marine coastal ecosystem is suitable. EMsmile (talk) 09:33, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I objected to targetting this to Coast since that is mostly about land. I agree that Marine coastal ecosystem is a plausible target. But would most people searching on the term coastal waters be looking for political/admin info or ecological info? As I said in the edit summary, you should open a WP:RFD to get other opinions. MB 15:33, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, done. I hope I did it correctly (I used Twinkle). EMsmile (talk) 08:34, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Pinging also User:Jturner20 for their opinion. EMsmile (talk) 10:39, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree that Marine coastal ecosystem is excellent and the most reasonable place to redirect! Thanks.
 * Jturner20 (talk) 19:51, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi Jturner20, see ongoing discussion here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_June_8#Coastal_waters EMsmile (talk) 21:25, 14 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Corrected link where the discussion took place (now closed): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2022_June_17#1655953920 EMsmile (talk) 08:14, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Proposed new text for coastal waters
I received the following text about coastal waters from Tim Jickells. I propose to add it to coast for now in a section on "coastal waters". If we think it makes sense we could later create a spin-off article: +++++++ Coastal waters is a rather general term used differently in different context, ranging geographically from the waters within a few km of the coast, through to the entire continental shelf which may stretch for hundreds of km from land. Thus the term coastal waters is used in a slightly different way in discussions of legal and economic boundaries (see territorial waters), when considering the geography of coastal landforms or when considering the ecological systems operating through the continental shelf to marine coastal ecosystem wiki. The research on coastal waters often divides into these separate areas too, but some global programmes attempt to embrace all the range of human interactions and ecosystem services that we derive from “coastal waters”. Refs to use perhaps: Regional Seas Programme | UNEP - UN Environment Programme and Future Earth Coasts - Home ++++++ EMsmile (talk) 21:34, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * He also wrote: "I've looked through some small number of books I have here at home, and I realise that each of these too starts with some of the very different definitions of what they mean by "coastal", reflecting the ambiguity you've highlighted in your discussion. So I don't think there is going to be a useful "reference", or not one I can find easily. I've explored in particular two places where you might expect to find such a reference. These are the UNEP Regional Seas Programme and the component of the global research initiative Future Earth that is focussed on coastal seas - Future Earth Coasts. Neither really grasp the nettle of "coastal waters" although from the UNEP site you can get to the UNCLOS definitions of the coastal zone (which are in the territorial wiki as well) but this material is all in very dry legal text and not likely to engage the casual reader. The predecessor to Future Earth Coasts was something called LOICZ and I suspect some of their synthesis material, in particular a book of synthesis will be a good reference but I don't have access to this (without buying the book!) and although the LOICZ website still exists, it is not maintained and some of the links don't work."
 * I copy here also what Epipelagic had written here which we could utilise (with some refs?).
 * " Comment The term coastal waters is fluid (no pun intended) in the sense that it means somewhat different things according to the context in which the term is used. It has specific meanings in the context of commercial coastal shipping, and somewhat different meanings in the context of naval littoral warfare. Oceanographers and marine biologists have yet other takes. Some of these differences are mentioned in littoral zone. Coastal fishermen focused on catching coastal fish and the need to construct coastal fishing boats have another perspective on what they mean when they refer to "coastal waters". Tourist operators focused on beaches and seaside resorts, as well as coastal property developers and coastal engineers no doubt have other perspectives. Researchers interested in things like transitional waters (as mentioned in 's comment immediately above), water pollution or sewerage disposal will have other takes. There are also legal and international views on what the term means or should mean. I agree with  that the term is a broad concept, and warrants an article of its own rather than a straight disambiguation page."

EMsmile (talk) 21:33, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I've now set up the new content here: Coast. EMsmile (talk) 08:31, 22 June 2022 (UTC)