Talk:Coat

Rewrite
I did a complete rewrite of this page.

Deleted this text:


 * Confusingly, what was once called a coat is now commonly referred to as a jacket, as in a dinner jacket, although the original meaning is still used in tailoring&mdash;to mean the upper part of a suit, for example.


 * - What is now commonly called a coat&mdash;an outer layer of clothing such as a trench coat&mdash;is, in tailoring terms, correctly called an overcoat, since it is worn over the coat.


 * - A coat or rug is also a covering for domesticated animals; see, for example, dog coat.

In general:
 * Split human clothing and animal clothing on the disambig page, and linked to coat (dog) directly from there
 * Added history, external links and references, categories "clothing" and "fashion", lists of types of coats and jackets with links and definitions

Still needs:
 * Images!
 * More types of coats and jackets

PKM 01:38, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the link to Basque! PKM 17:12, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Help!
I'm not certain if this is the right place, but someone who knows is bound to edit this entry at some point; hopefull they'll read the description, too. What does "double-breasted" mean? I can think of many possible defs myself, but most of them rely on the less savory parts of my mind.


 * Double-breasted in clothing means having two fronts that overlap, usually with two parallel rows of buttons, to retain warmth where the garment closes in front, or to make the chest appear fuller when that is the fashion. - PKM 03:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * - PKM 03:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Coats and jackets are different: why mix them up in one article?
A coat is an outerwear garment. Nothing is worn over it. For formal clothing (the sort of thing you would wear with a suit) it is traditionally about knee length, although in recent decades shorter coats are also being worn. While a coat is primarily the kind of tailored garment you would wear with a suit, it is also sometimes used to refer to more informal outerwear such as an anorak that is below hip-length.

A jacket can be worn with outerwear. It is never more than about hip length. To me, a jacket means the top half of a suit, a blazer, or a sports jacket. Less commonly, a jacket might also be used to refer informally to a for example blouson style jacket that is around waist length that is worn as outerwear with only a shirt or pullover beneath.

I'm very confused why a norfolk jacket should be in an article about coats! You could wear an overcoat or raincoat over a a Norfolk jacket, so its not a coat! You wouldnt wear a coat over a coat.

Perhaps this has something to do with differences between British and American usage; perhaps also that Americans dress less formally than european adults so perhaps our vocabulary is more specific in this area.

I would suggest this article needs two experts in the british and american clothing industries to sort out the confusion. 62.253.52.193 17:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * As a very late response, I can say with some certainty that this distinction is not as you imagine it. Evening coats, morning coats, and frock coats are all examples of coats that are not outerwear. Unfortunately, I'm afraid I can't give an authoritative explanation of the difference, as I have, in fact, no understanding of it whatsoever. --William Ager 03:26, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The things is, in common everyday usage, most of us distinguish coats and jackets. But the top half of a suit is always a "coat" to a tailor, as is a "sports coat" (though not a "dinner jacket"...).  Every day usage and usage by professionals in the clothing trades is different, and if anything the categories of "coat" and "jacket" overlap (and there are slightly different usages between the US and UK as well, I believe). - PKM 07:55, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Don't merge the two articles --Bushido Brown 23:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

You know, it's a funny thing, but I don't know any British or American Clothing experts... Sincerely, Captain Vimes 01:55, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I have noticed it was said that "in common everyday usage, most of us distinguish coats and jackets". Well, I can personally vouch that least 50% of my friends get mixed about it! I am not claiming there is no difference, but I'm just saying clarifications are needed. Especially if you remember the Eng. Wikipedia is used by non-English speakers, too... Rattner2 (talk) 23:47, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Removing photo
I am removing this photo from the article uploaded by User:Allyn. The photo does not add to a reader's understanding of the subject. It is a poor quality photo that the user took of himself, in which he is modelling garments he designs and sells on his personal website, in contradiction of Conflict_of_interest. In addition, the photo is not encyclopedic. Although being an unusual design, is not enough to justify inclusion in an encycolpedia article - otherwise everyone that makes their own clothes could justify adding their work to articles. See Notability.

No distinction between coat and jacket?
Currently this entry sports the following line:

"For modern clothing, the distinction between coat and jacket is not maintainable."

I understand that there is a great deal of overlap in usage. But even leaving aside specific, consistent usages of the terms for coat and jacket (sport coat, bomber jacket), there are general uses that are consistent. In women's clothing, for example, outerwear garments are generally referred to as coats, not overcoats, at least in the US; and a long, heavy one would always be called a coat, not a jacket. Likewise, I would never think of referring to a lightweight women's jacket as a coat.

Surely others have had this conversation on a fall morning: "Should I take my coat?" "It's not that cold—a jacket should be fine."

To dismiss these distinctions is to do a disservice to anyone seeking such information. Because this keeps coming up over and over, here and on the jacket page, I would really like to see a definitive stance taken.

Songsmyth (talk) 15:44, 17 October 2008 (UTC)


 * You're right, this is a tough one, in that it is not clear how we should use terms 'technically' and 'correctly' in an encyclopaedia compared to 'loose', verbal use. I had a few thoughts in mind when I wrote that sentence, which with hindsight did not really come out very well, and I probably should have started the discussion myself.  Firstly, there is the traditional and solid position that all jackets are tail-less undercoats, all of which are coats.  Secondly, there are differences in use, but it is hard to categorise.  In the US I understand that jacket and coat are sometimes used in the opposite sense to here in the UK (e.g. 'jacket and tie' vs. 'coat and tie', or whether to use 'coat' or 'jacket' to mean 'overcoat).  What I was trying to say was that no consistent, non-geographically specific distinction can be made on contemporary clothes.
 * I think we should keep some of the three articles in question (coat, over~, jacket) separate, since we want to avoid mammoth list articles whenever we can logically split them up; certainly the over/under-coat distinction is worth maintaining, but how we split up modern stuff (i.e. any article of clothing emerging post-war) is really nontrivial. I had been rather ignoring the jacket article, which is a bit of a tip, with life jacket indiscriminately mixed with pyjamas and blazers.  Were we to only have an encyclopaedia about the stuff I am interested in (dress coats, suits, etc.) then the problem goes away, but this is obviously not possible.
 * I propose therefore that we merge jacket and coat, explaining traditional use and distinctions, while giving just a few examples of the diversity of modern use; we make a separate list article where we can validly just place anything without worrying about sorting it. This might satisfy people, since no-one really wants a long list cluttering up an important page like 'jacket', and moving it gets rid of the contention over which page to put it on.
 * —Kan8eDie (talk) 16:17, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

British usage
In British usage:

Jacket: Never more than hip length. More formal types would be the top half of a suit, a blazer, a dinner jacket or a sports jacket. Informal types include denim jackets, biker jackets, etc.

Coat: Traditionally about knee length but can be shorter. Almost invariably an outermost garment, often worn over a jacket. Examples would be overcoat, raincoat, trench coat, duffle coat, anorak. Typically heavier for winter but can be lightweight for indoors (e.g. lab coat [often worn over a jacket but a lab coat is not a jacket itself because it is too long]).

Much of the difference is distinguished by their use as layers (a coat may be worn over a jacket but a jacket would never be worn over a coat) and reflected in their length (a denim coat would be long; a denim jacket would be short). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tors newton (talk • contribs) 00:52, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

"there are slightly different usages between the US and UK as well, I believe" - PKM

I think PKM has understated what is actually a big difference. Americans often use the term "coat" to refer to a garment that we in the UK would invariably refer to as a "jacket". For instance, the expression here is "jacket and tie" (the phrase "coat and tie" would raise a strange mental image of a man wearing an overcoat with a tie – and little else!).

"But the top half of a suit is always a "coat" to a tailor" - PKM

Not to a British tailor! This is always referred to as a "jacket" in the UK. And there is no such thing as a "sports coat" in the UK either (or at least not in the sense meant by Americans); this garment is referred to as a "sports jacket" here.

(I certainly don't mean to offend PKM! I think she has very usefully highlighted a difference in language between the USA and the UK.)

I think 62.253.52.193 has succinctly summed up the British understanding. Do NOT merge coats and jackets. It does not require an expert in fashion to know that the two terms are entirely different in British usage. Tors newton (talk) 21:35, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

if you think the only difference between coat and jacket is length that that will be not actually.trench coat are different.they can be short also.Big difference can be noticed.The jacket have chain system where coat have button system to make both open edgeto come closer.A belt can be used for a tie purpose but that basically used for fashion purpose.If still not clear you might be get clear concept from here.Cardigans are also can be derived by chain or buttons (some have chain and some have buttons)but for coat jacket thats the main difference.

Coat question
What kind of coat was the one Victor Creed wore in X-Men Origins: Wolverine? Josh (talk) 07:07, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 11 November 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Consensus to move. (closed by non-admin page mover)  SITH   (talk)   10:30, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

– The article of clothing gets around 7-8 times the amount of views as the animal fur, making it the clear primary topic for this word, as the article most people want to navigate to. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 07:43, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Coat (clothing) → Coat
 * Coat → Coat (disambiguation)
 * Support. Clear primary topic. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:48, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Support the view count difference is substantial and this is not a modern invention so WP:Recentism is not a factor.--69.157.252.96 (talk) 00:05, 14 November 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.