Talk:Coat of arms of the Nguyễn dynasty

"Coat of arms of Annam"?
I would like to clarify why I used the name "Coat of arms of the Nguyễn Dynasty" and not the term "Coat of arms of Annam", that is because I took it from Vietnamese sources that used "Quốc huy triều Nguyễn", rather than from the French sources. Furthermore, it is also important to note that there are multiple definitions when the French use the term "Annam".

These are the multiple definitions of "Annam" used by the French:


 * Annam in the broader sense: This includes Tonkin, Annam, and Lower Cochinchina and refers to all constituent countries of French Indo-China where Annamite people form a majority. In Vietnamese this is often called "Việt-Nam" (越南), "Đại-Nam" (大南), "Nam-Việt" (南越), and "Nước Việt" (渃越).


 * Empire of Annam (sometimes "Kingdom of Annam" or "Great Empire of Annam"): This refers to Annam + Tonkin, the areas nominally ruled by the Nguyễn dynasty. In Vietnamese this area is usually referred to as "Nước Đại-Nam" (渃大南) or "Quốc-gia An-Nam" (國家安南).


 * The French protectorate of Annam: This is the most narrow definition and only refers to the French protectorate of Annam, in Vietnamese this area is usually referred to as "Trung Kỳ" (中圻).

Usually when the French referred to this coat of arms they talked about the Empire of Annam, so it refers the Nguyễn Dynasty. The term for the Nguyễn Dynasty in Vietnamese also differs, I've seen contemporary sources use a lot of names, the name "Đại-Nam" is also kind of misleading as the official name is often read as Đại-Nam quốc (大南-國), it is meant to be Đại Nam-Quốc (大-南國). A lot of contemporary works written in Classical Chinese often simply refer to the country as "Nam Quốc" (南國) and romanised Vietnamese sources also use the term nước Nam (渃南). Compare this with the official names of other countries like "Đại Nhật Bản" (大日本), which is simply "Nhật Bản" (日本), "Đại Triều Tiên Quốc" (大朝鮮國), which is simply "Triều Tiên" (朝鮮), "Đại Pháp quốc" (大法國), which is simply "Nước Pháp" (渃法), and "Đại Thanh" (大清), which is also often simply "Thanh" (清). Even today South Korea calls itself "Đại Hàn Dân Quốc" (大韓民國), but is usually called "Hàn Quốc" (韓國). Thus in this context "Đại-Nam" is meant to be taken as a formal name for the country, similar to how "Đại Hàn" (大韓) is used for South Korea today where the government formally uses it for itself but the people typically use another name.

Because of the complicated naming system used in the Sinosphere the French typically referred to the country only as "Annam" which could have one (1) of those three (3) definitions and the term "Nguyễn Dynasty" is a lot less ambiguous than any of the other terms, plus it's the term primarily used by both historians and in Vietnamese historiography in general. --Donald Trung (talk) 20:19, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

"Quốc huy" (國徽) or "Huy hiệu" (徽皎)?
I have come across different names for "coat of arms", the Bảo tàng cổ vật cung đình Huế uses the term "Quốc huy" (國徽) while the Vietnamese-language Wikipedia uses the term "Huy hiệu" (徽皎). Both terms translate into English as "coat of arms" (in this specific context), but a "Quốc huy" is a national symbol. Likewise, for the article "Vương quốc Liên hiệp Anh và Bắc Ireland" uses the term "Hoàng gia huy" (皇家徽), while "Đan Mạch" uses the term "Quốc huy" again. As the Bảo tàng cổ vật cung đình Huế is a more reliable source I prefer to use their version.

Again, in English none of these terms have an effect as the English word remains the same. --Donald Trung (talk) 09:08, 20 May 2023 (UTC)