Talk:Cochrane (surname)

Origin
Cochrane is a surname of Scottish origin not Irish. It has no direct relationship to the surname Corcoran. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.199.21.92 (talk • contribs) 5 September 2006

Links
Can someone fix the links for this page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cusk1 (talk • contribs) 13 September 2006

Famous Last Words
Charles I's last word: REMEMBER, which may naturally be supposed to refer to whatever the speaker is known to have most desired to live in the recollection of the person addressed. . . REMEMBER, again, to walk by faith and not by sight. REMEMBER 'to do all in the name of the Lord Jesus', that is, to bear in mind that He is always present with you, that He witnesses all your thoughts, words, and actions, and that as His servant, His friend, His purchased possession, you ought always to be living to His glory.

God Save The King —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lordmacwilly (talk • contribs) 25 February 2007

70.170.18.148
A person using this IP Address vandalized this article on this date. 03:52, 8 March 2007. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LionKing80 (talk • contribs) 9 March 2007

Clean Up
We need to clean this article up a little. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zeebonks (talk • contribs) 19 March 2007

Places
Would anybody mind if I moved the places over to Cochrane (disambiguation)? Some readers might end up here by mistake when looking for Cochrane, Alberta, and it's a long way down the page before you get to the "Places" section. I would also want to add a hatnote along the lines of "For places called Cochrane, see Cochrane (disambiguation)". Any objections, anyone? CarolGray 18:15, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Done. CarolGray 17:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Viking Ancestry
Unless you can find some hard sources (and cite them) that the Cochrane Clan does not have some Viking origins, then leave it alone. Thanks.

User: ULSTER UNIONIST —Preceding unsigned comment added by UlsterUnionist (talk • contribs) 19:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Clan Cochrane
I think the Origins and History section belongs in the Clan Cochrane article. This is more of a surname article not a (family) history.--Celtus (talk) 10:43, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Scottish not Irish
Cochrane is Scottish not Irish. Stop making things up. When Cochrane is found in Ireland, it was brought over by Protestant Scots when the British colonized Ulster in the 16th Century. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.72.120.27 (talk) 02:02, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The article provides a reference that it was a name also adopted by the Corcorans in Ireland, so it has Irish origins too. A citation has been provided.  --HighKing (talk) 01:44, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Dear "High King" of the glorious Irish people. Yes, there are Irish Cochranes, but I would say most are UNIONISTS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.239.12.215 (talk) 00:36, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Cochrane is of Scottish origin. The claim that it is also of Irish origin should be backed up with a reference. I've found none, but if there is something out there, then add it here. Mister Flash (talk) 22:03, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi. The "and Irish" bit was added by User:Celtus.  I'm unsure as to the exact reason but looking at the 3rd reference included in this article is a book on Irish surnames which can be accessed of Google Books here and it states that "Cochrane" was was also adopted as an anglicisation by some with the Corcoran surname, which is of Irish origin.  Therefore there appears to be two origins of the surname - the more numerous branch of Scottish origin, and the Irish branch which was an anglicisation of Corcoran origin.  What do you think? --HighKing (talk) 23:06, 14 February 2009 (UTC) --HighKing (talk) 23:22, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I took this to mean that some people whose name was Corcoran (Irish origin) changed their name to Cochrane. To me, this does not qualify the name Cochrane to be of Irish origin. I can't find anywhere that explicitly states the Cochrane name has Irish origins. This ref seems quite clear - . Separately, some of the references in the External links section are dead links so I recommed they are removed - actually there are too many links in this section anyway. Mister Flash (talk) 23:55, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * To me, it seems clear that the original "word" is definitely of Scottish origin, but in some parts of Ireland, the name "Corcoran" is pronounced "Cochran" (you'd have to hear the accent, but believe me, it does) and many Irish names were anglicized with "English" spellings, this being an example. So I believe there are two branches.  The first and original Scottish branch, and a newer Irish branch resulting in an anglicisation of the name Corcoran.  Now does this mean that Cochrane has Irish origins?  Well, yes, but I think the article should make it clear that the original surname originated in Scotland, but perhaps include a paragraph that mentions that there are some Cochranes of Irish origin stemming from the Corcoran family.  The reference I included on Irish surnames appears to back up this claim.  Thoughts?  P.S. I agree with cleaning up links.  --HighKing (talk) 00:09, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree with what you say. A new para should be written to make it clear that an Irish branch stems orginally from Corcoran, notwithstanding that the origin of the name, or the word, is purely Scottish. Mister Flash (talk) 00:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Hmm. The word itself seems to be is derived from a place in Scotland. At the same time the surname is clearly Irish as well as Scottish.--Celtus (talk) 05:33, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Double Hmmm...the word might not even be derived from Scottish - this website has the derivation as Welsh. @Celtus, can you put forward the case as you see it why the surname is Irish, and have you any other references?  --HighKing (talk) 13:50, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 'Welsh' as in the language though, not the country. Quite a few place-names in Scotland are derived from the Welsh language. Maybe the place 'Cochrane' was possibly within the lands of the Welsh speaking Kingdom of Strathclyde? What i mean by the name is 'Irish' is that the Ó Corcráin Cochranes adopted it in Ireland. The use of their name (Cochrane) originated in Ireland. I can see how 'of Irish origin' is clumsy and can cause confusion. What do you think of the lead now? -> Cochrane is an Irish and Scottish surname. The word itself originates from a place in Scotland, however the name has also been used as an Anglicisation for several Gaelic language surnames.--Celtus (talk) 06:24, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Proposal for new introduction
What about the following:

''Cochrane is a surname with primarily Scottish origins although an independent Irish surname with different origins also exists. The Scottish surname originates from a place in Scotland, while the Irish surname is an Anglicisation for a Gaelic language surname.'' --HighKing (talk) 13:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * This is better than the current lead sentence, which implies equal weight as to country of origin, or maybe even that the name was first found in Ireland. I'd be inclined to take out 'primarily'; the sentence is less cumbersome without it. Also, there's perhaps too many 'origins' and 'originates'. It might be better to lose one of them. Mister Flash (talk) 19:17, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Remember the Scots surname is also sometimes an Anglicisation (MacEachrain).--Celtus (talk) 05:20, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Ye Gods! I'm not very impressed with my own abilities here, but I'll give it another shot:
 * Cochrane is a surname with multiple independent origins, two Scottish and one Irish. One Scottish surname originates from a place in Scotland, and both the Irish surname and the other Scottish surname are anglicisations for a Gaelic language surname.

--HighKing (talk) 09:35, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, everything seems to be covered. Lets see what MF thinks of it.--Celtus (talk) 06:57, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems good. The only point I would make (because I can't help making points!) is that we should not say "One Scottish surname etc.". This suggests the surnames themselves are different. Maybe it's better to say "One Scottish version" or words similar. Just a thought. Mister Flash (talk) 17:26, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I'm not an expert on IPA, but the pronunciation looks wrong. It appears to say the pronunciation of the first syllabel 'coch' is 'coc', which, of course, it isn't. Coch is coch, like loch, broch, or any other gaelic based word with a ch in it like that.

Also the last syllable is a gaelic style unstressed ambiguous sound, not an 'a' as it seems to be here.

It appears to suggest the pronunciation is coc-rahn, which of course is nonsense, it is pronounced 'Cochren', with an unstressed second syllable vowel. I assume the confusion comes from english pronunciation of the surname, or an unfounded confusion with 'Corcoran' that appears to be current on this page.

I will have a look and see if I can work it what it should be in IPA and fix it, but whoever put in the current pronunciation can never have heard the name spoken.

Ah, source - everyone in Scotland called Cochrane. 94.126.240.2 (talk) 13:59, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * On further reading, the second syllable is right, an upside down e symbol 'ə' is correct, in as far as IPA goes. First syllable is slightly wrong, the second K in the wikipedia pronunication guide should be KH (although this is the correct pronunciation, and not a regional or accent thing, despite what it says on the wikipedia prnunciation page). I assume this is unfamiliarity with IPA, and not a genuine lack of knowledge of the correct pronunciation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.126.240.2 (talk) 14:04, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Pronunciation fixed, checked with other Cochranes, and wikipedia pronunciation fixed to reflect correct IPA. I'm sure american cochranes will disagree with me, but /ˈkɔːxrən/ is the corrent pronunciation in Scotland. If it's pronounced differently where you live, perhaps an additional line would be in order explaining that. 94.126.240.2 (talk) 14:30, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Old thread, I know. But as far as I'm aware, from what I've heard, it's pronounced the same way in the United States. There might be a rare exception here and there, but the Scottish pronunciation is preserved, and the norm. Quinto Simmaco (talk) 07:25, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Motto?
What is the Motto's source? There doesn't appear to be a source cited for the motto. Can somebody help find a citable source for the motto? Joseph Thomas Cochrane (talk) 22:39, 29 December 2023 (UTC)