Talk:Coed y Pantwn

Where is this?
I've just put a notability tag on this. It was categoried in "Villages of Denbighshire", which is what first brought it to my attention. Whatever it is, it is not a village or hamlet. It may be a dwelling place of some description, or even a small wood (coed). The quote is from Borrow, by the way, but he doesn't say where it is. All modern academic sources, e.g. the standard edition of Iolo Goch's works by Dafydd Johnston, refer to sources linking Iolo's family with Llechryd and Berain in the lower Clwyd valley; Johnston has no mention of a "Coed Pantwn". Anyway, whatever the merits of that, it is not a village or settlement (even Google agrees for once - no pages to tell you there are no florists there!). I can't find it on the OS 1:50,000 map. This seems destined to be a very unreliable one-liner (Borrow's source was probably the local tavern!). So where's this going? Nowhere much. Does it merit being here? Suggest incorporating into Iolo Goch, with a disclaimer re Borrow as a source. Enaidmawr (talk) 20:27, 26 April 2008 (UTC)


 * If it is a place that exist, and that has some historical value, why to delete it? Give me a couple of days to do some more research. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 23:46, 27 April 2008 (UTC)


 * But does it exist today? And what, if anything, is it today? How reliable is the reference? I've checked a number of authoritative academic books on Iolo Goch. They all say that his father Ithel Goch held land in Llechryd, a manor 5 miles west of Denbigh, and that he almost certainly lived there. The only mention of "Coed y Pantwn" I've found is by Borrow and in a well-known mid-19th century Welsh biographical work (probably Borrow's source) by a man from Denbighshire, who says that Iolo had a dwelling in "Coed y Pantwn in Llechryd". So there's a local tradition in the 19th century (lower not upper Vale of Clwyd, by the way; Borrow's mistake). But all that is is the location of his dwelling. As far as I know there is nothing there today (he wasn't a great lord with a fine mansion) - apart from maybe a small wood (coed) with that name - and what is more there is no mention at all of "Coed Pantwn" in the historical records (medieval) about Iolo Goch. It is not mentioned in Iolo's poetry either. So what is there to say here? No more than what is here already. It will go nowhere because there is nowhere to go. I think the best thing to do is to include this as two lines in the Iolo Goch article and redirect this to Iolo Goch. I hope you will agree to that. Enaidmawr (talk) 22:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Redirected to Iolo Goch for the reasons stated above. Enaidmawr (talk) 23:23, 4 May 2008 (UTC)