Talk:Cola wars/Archive 1

Expansion tag
I tagged this article for expansion. I think there is a featured article waiting to be written here. Youngamerican 16:03, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Aggressive Pepsi vs. Flowery Coke?
Throughout the nineties and until today, I never saw a Coke ad bashing Pepsi, but a huge number of Pepsi ads bash Coke... Could we mention that somehow? I was too young in the 80s to know if this was also the case then. -newkai | talk | contribs 18:49, 13 May 2006 (UTC) Another note on the commercials is that every coke-bashing commercial Pepsi puts out, they use Coke's logo, but never have a visible disclaimer anywhere. Slokunshialgo 00:11, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

NPOV
I added this tag since the first few paragraphs of the article are NOT about the cola wars, rather, they are about Pepsi. Also, they show Pepsi in positive only light, and don't mention Coke much at all, and don't mention other types of colas. Hires an editor 19:24, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I have re-added this tag as the article still only talks about Pepsi's success, and if I did not know otherwise, I would believe, after viewing this article, that Pepsi is indisputably way more popular and successful than Coke. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Twipie (talk • contribs) 06:18, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

Fanta
shouldnt fanta orange be included under cokes' orange drink section? Is their an equivelent Pepsi brand? I changed orange drink to orange juice. Fanta and the other brand should be added under a new row called orange soda. Koweja 19:26, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

On the Polish market (I live in Poland) Pepsi's equivalent of Fanta is Mirinda, although I don't know if it exists on other markets. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Dr. Pepper is not made by Pepsi
Though it is distributed by them in amny markets. I've editted the article to remove mention of Dr. Pepper. A shame, too, as I wanted to change Pibb to Mr. Pibb, but instead I'm removing the link entirely. Oh well. 216.229.65.171 08:15, 28 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Really? I think Dr Pepper is owned by PepsiCo actually:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_PepsiCo They should not be listed as competitors in this article. 89.240.12.107 (talk) 02:47, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Dr Pepper Snapple Group, not Pepsi, not at all. The person who falsely added that claim to that list article was uniformed. oknazevad (talk) 05:07, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

7 up
7 Up is the main Lemon Lime product from Pepsi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_up robin.lemstra 82.73.195.228 (talk) 09:46, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Slice
Someone should redirect Slice to the Slice (Soft Drink) page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.121.184.19 (talk) 01:13, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

It should also be under Pepsi's lemon-lime section. It was originally Pepsi's answer to Sprite, I believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.218.241.133 (talk) 00:47, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

New Yorker cartoon
Many decades ago the New Yorker carried a cartoon depicting, as I recall, an airplane skywriting "Coca Cola", while on the roof of a building a team wearing Pepsi uniforms prepared to shoot it down with anti-aircraft fire. Of course we couldn't actually use that in the article, but if we wanted to mention the public perceptions of the cola wars it may be a primary source. It's been reprinted in collections of New Yorker cartoons, and may even be online. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 05:51, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Dispepsi
Negativland made an album about the Cola Wars entitled Dispepsi. Should this be added to the "Cola Wars in Popular Culture" section? Eric Mushroom Wilson (talk) 15:19, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

This mention in the article seemed very out-of-place. 174.29.172.156 (talk) 01:27, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

The war started ealier
The Cola wars has been going on since at least since the 1960's, with the "Pepsi Generation" and "Things go better with Coca-Cola", and Coke's phenomenal "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing" ad (1971). The war may have escalated in the '80's, but it had been going on a long time as of 1980. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.128.108.21 (talk) 11:49, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Twist
I drank Pepsi Twist yesterday in Romania. Therefore, it should be listed as "discontinued". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.245.127.15 (talk) 08:52, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problem
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. --Whpq (talk) 20:44, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Date range
What exactly are we going with as the definition for the Cola Wars? I always thought it was when Coke and Pepsi specifically targeted each other (and retaliated) in their marketing campaigns (such as the Coke and Pepsi vending machines transforming into robots and battling it out). As such, this essentially began in the 70s with the Pepsi Challenge and died out in the late 80s after the failure of New Coke, as the marketing campaigns became more traditional and less combative. At that point, Pepsi claimed a bittersweet victory in that Coca-Cola could not innovate a new product and lost face in the process, but Coca-Cola had inadvertently proven a level of customer loyalty Pepsi couldn't possibly hope to match. After that, both companies focused on marketing their product rather than attacking the other.

Anyway, it certainly didn't last into the 90s, and I know of almost no one who considers it to have done so. (Just because a company uses celebrities, such as the Spice Girls, doesn't make it part of an advertising "war".) The current article seems to include almost any advertising campaign put forth by either company. But by the time I started high school in the late 80s, we pretty much considered the Cola Wars a thing of the past. --12.106.209.61 (talk) 19:27, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

The second cola wars
Does it require a seperate article, as both wars seem to me, to be slightly different marketing angles of the same campaign, but still quite distinct. I may apply WP:BOLD and make an article for the cola wars 2.--Cymbelmineer (talk) 21:48, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Water and Cream Soda
Shouldn't the categories 'Water' and 'Cream Soda' be included on the table of beverages? I will edit the table for now, and if anybody has any problems with the edit, please put your input under this section.209.213.145.157 (talk) 02:28, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm of the opinion that, as the chart is intended to show the direct competitors of the big three companies, a type of drink shouldn't be on here unless all three make a version. In the case of cream soda, I don't know of a version in the Coca-Cola brand portfolio. Pepsi and Dr Pepper's versions are just extensions of the Mug and A&W brands, respectively, but I know of no Coke brand.
 * As for water, there's literally thousands of brands of bottled water, and the big 3's brands are more to compete with them than with each other, so as an extension of the cola wars (the only real reason for the chart) they're irrelevant. Essentially, Pepsi didn't introduce Aquafina because Come introduced Disani (or vice versa) but both introduced their brand because they were loosing market share to Poland Spring and wanted to stem off the loses. oknazevad (talk) 02:53, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Gee, I'd never heard or seen Barq's Red Cream Soda. Learn something new everyday. Still have a minor concern that all of the cream sodas are the same names as the root beers (which is common), but such is life. oknazevad (talk) 03:40, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * See Template:Cream soda brands. Each company has (at least) one cream soda brand.209.213.145.157 (talk) 15:30, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, inoticed that afterwards. I left the cream soda row in; it is a proper addition. oknazevad (talk) 15:32, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * What about bottled water, any concerns there?209.213.145.157 (talk) 15:33, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry, didnt notice paragraph starting with as for water. But as you were saying, it shouldnt be on there unless all three make a brand. And plus, even though they didnt release the brand to compete, they are still competitors.209.213.145.157 (talk) 15:45, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * However, I still agree, they are irrelevent. But we cant forget to include one of the biggest types of beverage in the business. After all, this is Wikipedia the free encyclopedia. I think every page should be as detailed as possible so people could have the best free reference book (or website) possible.209.213.145.157 (talk) 15:49, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Are you there?209.213.145.157 (talk) 16:03, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, now I am (talk pages aren't a live chat; don't always expect an immediate response!)
 * As for the inclusion of bottled water, I think it's a bit trivial, and the concern I have is that if we were to include all brands (which vary greatly from country to country) it'd be an undue amount of info for the one segment that the companies aren't really known for. Do they sell bottled water? Yes. Is it their core business and what people think of when the talk of Coke and Pepsi? No. oknazevad (talk) 16:18, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Very good point. By the way, thanks for the tip.209.213.145.157 (talk) 16:28, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Should we make a trivia section on the page, not the table, to serve as a referencial P.S.?209.213.145.157 (talk) 16:43, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're asking here. Trivia sections are to be avoided in general. oknazevad (talk) 17:10, 5 August 2011 (UTC) Sorry. I'm kind of new to editing Wikipedia.209.213.145.157 (talk) 17:57, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Why are trivia sections to be avoided?209.213.145.157 (talk) 18:01, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * See WP:TRIVIA. Long story short, if it's important enough to mention, it should go in the appropriate other sections. If it doesn't fit elsewhere in the article, it's not important enough to mention. oknazevad (talk) 16:15, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Mountain Dew
Shouldnt Mountain Dew be listed in the 'lemon-lime' section (it says its a lemon-lime soda on its Wikipedia page) or the 'orange' page (The third biggest ingredient is concentrated orange juice, behind carbonated water and high fructose corn syrup)?209.213.145.157 (talk) 16:37, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's fine as is. Mountain Dew is a blend, and neither an orange soda nor a lemon-lime. (I may have to change the Mountain Dew page). It's in a separate category, which is how it's listed. People don't buy Mountain Dew instead of Sprite, as they taste entirely different. oknazevad (talk) 17:10, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Good point.209.213.145.157 (talk) 17:58, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Schweppes
The Schweppes article says Schweppes is manufactured by a subsidiary of Dr. Pepper in Canada, not Pepsi.
 * Yes, you are correct. And that's been verified at the website of Canada Dry Motts, the Canadian unit of DPSG. (I must commend DPSG for their choice of unit name; Canadian unit, Canada Dry. It's humorously appropriate, methinks.)
 * Still, as it's true, I'm removing Schweppes from the Pepsi column. Need to see if they actually have a brand. oknazevad (talk) 06:25, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Non-Cola drinks
Is the list of competing products directly relevant to the subject? If it is, do we have a source that compares particular brands and frames them as part of the "Cola War"? --McGeddon (talk) 15:39, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Most certainly, as it shows how the three leading companies have parallel portfolios. Don't get too hung up on the literalness of the "cola" in the title; the competition extends beyond the flagship products. oknazevad (talk) 15:45, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * The article lede describes itself as focusing on "a campaign of mutually-targeted television advertisements and marketing campaigns since the 1980s between soft drink manufacturers", which seems like a good summary - two companies selling a product in the same niche happens all the time, but when they start calling one another out in their advertising, it's a bigger deal. Are we drifting away from the subject to imply that - for example - Seagram's Ginger Ale has been marketed with explicit comparisons to Patio, and vice versa? --McGeddon (talk) 16:09, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

In fact, has the Dr Pepper Snapple group ever been specifically invoked as a faction in the "Cola Wars"? The rest of the article doesn't mention them. --McGeddon (talk) 16:10, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
 * I see what you're saying. In many ways that definition in the lead is more limited than the broader use of the phrase seen in general use, wherein "cola wars" is used to describe Coke and Pepsi's competition generally. Maybe a rephrase of the lead is needed to include the broader use. oknazevad (talk) 22:12, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Fair use candidate from Commons: File:Soft Drink.svg
The file File:Soft Drink.svg, used on this page, has been deleted from Wikimedia Commons and re-uploaded at File:Soft Drink.svg. It should be reviewed to determine if it is compliant with this project's non-free content policy, or else should be deleted and removed from this page. If no action is taken, it will be deleted after 7 days. Commons fair use upload bot (talk) 21:20, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Fair use candidate from Commons: File:Soft Drink.svg
The file File:Soft Drink.svg, used on this page, has been deleted from Wikimedia Commons and re-uploaded at File:Soft Drink.svg. It should be reviewed to determine if it is compliant with this project's non-free content policy, or else should be deleted and removed from this page. If no action is taken, it will be deleted after 7 days. Commons fair use upload bot (talk) 21:33, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 January 2021 and 30 April 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Brybrydawg.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:58, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Cola wars
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Cola wars's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Snopes": From New Coke:  From Dr Pepper:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 08:11, 9 March 2020 (UTC)

Introducing New Edits
I am a student editor at Texas A&M University, and I will be working on this article for the next few weeks. I will be working on various bold edits, including adding more relevant information and completely restructuring the presentation of this article. This article hardly addresses what the "Wars" are. I will continue to update my future plans and edits here on the talk page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brybrydawg (talk • contribs) 03:52, 2 March 2021 (UTC)

Edit Summary
So far, I have created several additional headings that should be expanded upon to strengthen this article, including a "history" segment at the beginning and two others that focus on Coke and Pepsi advertising strategies. My next bold edit was to completely remove the section detailing the lawsuit against Pepsi, as I do not believe it is relevant to the Cola Wars. If the lawsuit directly affected Pepsi's standing in the Cola Wars, it could be worth reversing the edit, but only if these ties are made present. Following these edits, I plan to add more (strong) sources and expand upon the new "history" section to provide a solid base to continue this article in the future. Brybrydawg (talk) 04:01, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I added the History section and wrote a paragraph on the origin of the Cola Wars. After doing research, I've discovered many facts that should be added within this article if anyone is willing to do so, especially from a historical standpoint. Many of the sections already within the article need to be expanded upon with an emphasis on how the information played a role in the Wars. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brybrydawg (talk • contribs) 17:09, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Error under ‘Pepper-Style”
The Coca Cola Company has distribution rights for Doctor Pepper in Southern California. Why isn’t this listed on the chart 47.153.11.61 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 15:08, 30 June 2022 (UTC)


 * Dr Pepper (not spelled out and no dot) is bottled under various contracts in various parts of the US, many under contracts that have been in place for decades. That doesn't change the outright ownership of the brand by Keurig Dr Pepper. oknazevad (talk) 01:07, 22 November 2022 (UTC)