Talk:Coleman Hawkins

Father of Jazz Saxophone
Although Hawkins was an early pioneer, he arguably shares the title of "Father of Jazz Saxophone" with Sidney Bechet. Searching for Father of Jazz Saxophone on Google showed both men were so attributed. -- SeanO 12:41, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)

education
The article reads as follows:
 * Coleman Hawkins was born in Saint Joseph, Missouri. He attended high school in Chicago, then in Topeka, Kansas. He later stated that he studied harmony and composition for two years at Washburn College in Topeka. In his youth he played piano and cello, and started playing sax at age 9; by age 16 he was playing professionally. He joined Mamie Smith's Jazz Hounds in 1921 with whom he toured through 1923,

Now, I admit to being confused. I know he was living in Topeka Kansas during the 1920-1921 school year, because he is pictured (second from the right) in the big photo of the band in the 1921 Sunflower, the THS yearbook. (link to very small copy of original photo) Every source says he was born (November 21, 1904.  So, at the start of the 1920-1921 school year, he would have been sixteen years old, and aguably a sophomore.  Perhaps a Jr, but with a November birthdate, unlikely.  Many web sites quote Hawk as saying he studied composition at Washburn, but WHEN?  He started playing in KC in 1921.  Was he commuting the two hours back and forth from KC to Topeka?  Was this a special tutorial for a gifted high school student?    Does anyone have a better source? Rick Boatright 23:59, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I don't have any of my references with me (I'm on the road for work), but I recall reading that Hawkins was vain and often lied about his age. It wouldn't surprise me if he was one or two years older than he admitted to. Let me get back to my sources and see if I can find any applicable information. Of course, a definitive source (eg: birth certificate, 1910 or 1920 Census records) would be ideal to find, but hard to come by. -- SeanO 01:13, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

I've done some research and most older sources use the 1904 date (eg: Gunther Schuler's the Swing Era), a newer source uses a 1901 birthdate (the Penguin Guide to Jazz on CD: 7th Edition). I'm inclined to put 1901 or 1904 in the bio as the birthdate (as I did for the Nat King Cole article, until I got better information). -- SeanO 01:19, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

In Topeka, where I currently live, we have a Coleman Hawkins Jazz Festival each year. If you do a search for it, you can probably contact those who put it together annually -- they may have some connection to Hawkins' family or family friends, which might help you track down further documentation of his age, schooling, and so forth. I hope this helps you. Catbot79 (talk) 00:59, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Birth date
I searched the 1920 census records at Ancestry.com (a subscription site) and located Coleman H. Hawkins, a 15-yr-old student, living with William D. and Cordelia Hawkins at 1711 Angelique St. in St. Joseph, MO. Thomas J. and Louise Coleman, probably his grandparents, were at the same address. In the 1910 census, I found Coleman W. Hawkins, 5 years old, at the same address with the same people. I'm aware that census records sometimes lie, but it's interesting that both of these censuses are in agreement with a late-1904 birth date. Now, I must ask -- if he was living in St. Joe in both 1910 and 1920, just when did Hawk live in Chicago or Topeka? DutchmanInDisguise (talk) 04:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Rick speculates above that Hawk might have been only a sophomore or junior during the 1920-1921 school year. I see nothing unusual about a gifted student graduating a few months before his 17th birthday. Things were different in those days. Even with a November birth date, little Hawk could have entered the first grade before his sixth birthday, then skipped a whole year somewhere along the way. Is the rest of that 1921 yearbook available somewhere? Is Hawk listed as a member of the graduating class? As for his studies at Washburn, I found the following in CH's biography at the Coleman Hawkins Legacy Jazz Festival site: Hawkins attended the old Topeka High School and apparently received extensive private musical tutoring through Washburn University while attending THS. The "apparently" in that statement makes me wonder, though. DutchmanInDisguise (talk) 21:22, 30 June 2009 (UTC)


 * hope it's ok to insert this quick note here, I made a correction where it said Hawk was one of the influential musicians of the 19th century. I'm also interested to know about discography references.  It seems these things get really tangled up over time; I just listened to The Hawk Swings, which does not appear in his Jazzdisco.org listing, however it does come up as a posthumous release in assorted guises--and with different tracks.  On Amazon, I read reviews of the album from people saying they owned it in the mid-sixties...confusing!KimVanA (talk) 17:28, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ColemanHawkins TheCollection.jpg
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 * Of secondary concern is that this appears to be a book cover (i.e. a book of transcriptions), rather than an album cover. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Citations & References
See Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the  tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 10:48, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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