Talk:Colin Hardman

Failed Notability
I would like to make the following observations, to be considered:

1. "Not really something of huge notability in the present day" is not an issue... Wikipedia has lots of things that are not notable now, but were clearly so in the past! The question to be considered in this discussion is: "Is there any evidence that the subject meets the notability criteria at any time", not whether it meets that criteria now. For example, First Geneva Convention was completely revised and rewritten for the future Conventions, but the First one was notable when it was first created, and so remains so now, even though superceded.

2. Therefore I find the 'notability' criteria leveled against this article bewildering. To say that someone who has won an Isle of Man TT race, a race which takes place on the most challenging course in world motorcycling, gained a further three podium and an additional six top ten finishes, may not fit the notability guidelines for sports and athletics appears to show a lack of understanding of the significance of the achievements of the subject.

3. To the best of resources available the article gives a balanced viewpoint of the subjects achievements, together with an in-depth record of the subject's racing career, particularly at the Isle of Man, both in the solo and sidecar classes which in turn are referenced as much as can be sourced.

Harvey Milligan (talk) 16:28, 21 March 2020. (UTC)
 * The same WP:N standard requirements apply to all; the standard test/requirements are that the subject should have significant coverage in reliable sources. WP:NOTMEMORIAL applies to deceased individuals - Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a place for eulogy. There may be some pre-death hard-copy sources in existence, but until these surface the article is deficient. This applies equally to me and every other editor. I (and no-one else) can't write a film article/review concerning two Hollywood stars because there are no suitable internet sources; but there may have been in the early 1980s. To assert that Colin Hardman has done this, that or the other is subjective and irrespectivehe is/was a journeyman racer, not a star, probably not even breaking even. Just one of thousands. An individual's opinion does not countermand the Wikipedia establishment. The recent addition of books by an Irish IP address is indeterminate as may just be results tables. Bill Beevers was a prolific Isle of Man competitor in both solo and sidecar, and later became a travelling marshal. This doesn't mean he automatically can have an article that circumvents requirements. Swamping the article with results tables and multiple headings - as with Bruce Anstey - does not decrease it's lack of Notability; in particular 21 'DNFs' means nothing, as does DNS. That info could be derived from TT Database. I can't see the quote "Not really something of huge notability in the present day" (in the opening statement above) anywhere so cannot comment; similarly, as I don't see why it is even mentioned, quotes or speech marks are irrelevant. The other thing to consider is WP:OWN. I also note that has been criticised at WP:COMMONS for regularly failing to comply with required standards, see Deletion requests/Files uploaded by Harvey Milligan and User talk:Harvey Milligan for past image file deletions since 2013.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 21:06, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
 * As a post-script, one of my pet-hates and one of the reasons I no longer submit much in the way of prose is the rise of unregulated websites with no recognised archives that take (plagiarise) content from easy internet sources, transferring it to their own sites with a copyright notice slapped on to the footer; this then appears to be a reliable source, and which an editor could add to WP as a source, hence WP:CIRCULAR. This article could be targeted as such. Something I wrote appeared pasted-in to such a site with self-confessed wannabe writers; as there is no public history, any wikilawyer could argue I had copyvio'd their content. Unlikely, though, in reality, luckily due to the Wordpress legend on the footer denoting it as an amateur site.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 21:33, 30 March 2020 (UTC)


 * @Rocknrollmancer

It would be great if you could limit yourself to clear evidence and facts and less of personal opinion and assumptions. Special in BIO! Wiki = be nice! Thank you very much. TheorieMankk (talk) 12:36, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
 * - thank you for your lecture. You are a new user with no contributions to the Encyclopedia - why get involved with no experience? Or are you trying to hide your background with another log-in? (Not allowed). Replied further at User talk:Rocknrollmancer.--Rocknrollmancer (talk) 15:00, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

I expect Rocknrollmancer would limit the motorcycle racer category to MotoGP riders only, and his assessment of Hardman as (quote) a journeyman racer shows his this. Harvey Milligan (talk) 17:42, 13 May 2023. (UTC)