Talk:Columbine Mine massacre

borrows heavily
The page Columbine Mine Massacre borrows heavily from my more complete personal web page at :

http://www.rebelgraphics.org/columbinestory.html

Wikipedia is hereby granted permission to use this material.

User:Richard Myers

left-wing propaganda
This sounds like left-wing propaganda. It doesn't even attempt to be impartial. Suggest rewrite. --80.219.63.77 00:42, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Oh, that's helpful. Non-specific criticism by an unidentified party. Richard Myers


 * This article is not NPOV. It clearly tries to promote the workers' position. It should be cut down to only the facts. 160.39.146.14 02:26, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)


 * Indeed, the article comes off almost as a story sometimes. I'll tag it with the Attention...thingy. --Kross 01:36, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)


 * Are there any sources (major newspapers, for example) that describe this event? Virtually all accounts I've seen online are exactly the same as this article, complete with the "chill November morning" opener (it sounds like the writer took classes at the "it was a dark and stormy night" school of narration.)  Not to accuse but the whole thing could have been one person's unverified account that got spread around the Internet and ended up here. Paul 22:21, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * See Conlin, Margolis, Joanna Sampson... Phyllis Smith. The strike and massacre have been very well documented.


 * The language does need to be neutralized a bit. But please do some research, then criticize. Or better yet, research then EDIT. Richard


 * A friend of mine wrote a play about this incident, and I helped him with the research. Much of the action described here is corroborated by striker testimony recorded in a transcript of an inquest held in the weeks (or months, I've forgotten) after the massacre. The main issues of the inquest had to do with the escalation of violence during the incident, the use of machine guns during the struggle, the presence of the so-called "rangers" and the relationship between the state police, the owners of the mine and Colorado's governor at the time. (This was an era of much Klan involvement in Colorado state government, btw.) For the most part, the "official" story, as rendered by the Denver papers and by the bulk of the inquest transcript, exonerated the police of wrongdoing and downplayed the miner testimony. You could, as they say, look it up, as the transcript is stored in the University of Colorado historical collections; the public is welcome to look at it in the library basement.
 * Hope this helps,
 * J. Gluckstern

If you're going to criticize, be SPECIFIC about it. Saying something's propaganda doesn't make it so.Brad2 06:05, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

It's hard to assume good faith when the massacre of mine workers protesting horrible conditions is seen by some as left wing propaganda. It's just what they did back then, and it should not be toned down for anybody. It's an outrage.--Gueux de mer (talk) 09:14, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

My revision
I removed info that was POV and/or unencyclopedic; I left the basics of the event and added the tag because no authoritative sources have been presented. (I have searched "Columbine Mine Massacre" on Google and JSTOR; no results on JSTOR and the only ones on Google were verbatim copies of this article. I don't doubt that authoritative sources exist, however I haven't found any on the Internet.  More information certainly can be added to the article if it can be verified.  Paul 15:35, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Just to be clear: I realize that this has potential for an edit war and a heated debate over political issues.  I want to clarify that my edit of this page (and my placing of Flaming Milka on AFD are not politically motivated.  A look at the respective user pages of myself and this article's author will reveal differences of political leanings; I strive to keep personal biases out of all edits, and I'm certain the author does the same.  (Incidentally, the Ludlow Massacre article was well written and compliments to its authors/editors.)  Paul 15:59, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Notice about this page
After noting that 95 percent of what i've written in this article has been deleted, i have resolved to rewrite it completely, and will provide references. It may take a month or two. --User:Richard Myers October 2005
 * One of the contributers of Slaughter in Serene was recently (Sometime between 11/7 and 11/9) interviewed on KGNU in Boulder www.kgnu.org. The interview should be archived and available there and may prove helpful for finding sources most or all of which will be nonelectronic. Also, the IWW should also have some kind of records concerning the strike. BTW this is exactly the kind of history that Colorado is made up of but it has been mostly forgotten or hidden. --YellowLeftHand 22:50, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

No Update?
this article is an interesting read but one can not ignore the absence of neutrality throughout. it is also written with an excessivly dramatic voice making the article more narative than informative. the "meat" of this information is then given with no citation of source material. the only source listed is at the end, where it is drawn upon twice. further elaboration & citation is warranted. looking forward to future edits. --Subv3rt 21:00, 2 August 2007 (UTC)


 * This was one of my first contributions to Wikipedia a couple of years ago. I am the editor and one of the writers of the first book dedicated specifically to this historical event. It is true that the language in the article needs to be more encyclopedic, and i hope to work on that in the future. However, i recently spent a few months writing a number of other articles here, and for a time am somewhat burned out for major editing work. In the meantime, others are researching the 1927 strike, and hopefully there'll be additional source material available soon. best wishes, Richard Myers 08:37, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

typographical errors at the end of the article
Near the end of the article, this sentence appears. It does not make sense as written and I hope the author will correct it. I read the article because I am trying to learn about this event.

"After Colorado Fuel and Iron (CF&I), the former John D. Rockefeller, Jr., holdings in Colorado, went bankrupt in 1990, it became apparent that the company had systematically spied upon, disrupted, and sought to discredit the union during the 1927 strike."

Thank you, John McEwen Jsmcewen (talk) 02:58, 31 December 2009 (UTC)JSMcEwen


 * I've re-written the sentence, and added a link. thanks, Richard Myers (talk) 21:41, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Myers;

Thank you. I'm flattered. After reading the posts from people giving you a hard time about this article, I'm glad to be of help to you.

Also, it seems to me that the sentence as re-written, pretty much refutes the criticism that the article is biased in favour of the unions. Whatever those critics' source of information, this suggests it was mis-information put out by the companies and their friends.

Feel free to delete this post now that the typo has been fixed.

JMc

References?
I think this is a well written article and I find it describes the events of the Columbine Mine Massacre thoroughly and in great detail, but I do find it a little worrisome that is article which is extremely detailed provides almost no references for any of its facts. I'm not doubting anything that is written here, but as an encyclopedia article, the fact that is is describing to me the way Adam Bell is stepping forward and putting his hand on the gate and getting struck by a club, and a tug of war with an flag happening right after, with no secondary source seems odd. Again aside from this, this article seems great, but its heavy details with no references makes it suspicious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.80.205 (talk) 18:19, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Valid criticism. This was one of the first articles that i created on Wikipedia more than six years ago, and i wrote it before i knew how to do footnotes. At that time, many articles were written without footnotes. I have all the references for this information, and will try to find time to insert the proper information. (I co-wrote one of the few history books on this topic.) It may be a few months, however, before i get around to it, so if someone else also has the info, please feel free. Richard Myers (talk) 19:48, 22 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Ack. Just noticed that i promised footnotes here once before. :-( Richard Myers (talk) 19:52, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

This article
This article (which i initiated) has content similar to this section of another, newer article:

Industrial_Workers_of_the_World_philosophy_and_tactics

...which i also wrote. Unlike this article, that section is carefully referenced.

The significant difference between this article, and that section, is that the section is aimed at tactics employed, rather than just presenting an overview of the strike. But much of the content is relevant to both this article and that one.

The research is a step forward, i think. I do plan to consolidate, hopefully soon. Richard Myers (talk) 23:44, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Connection with CF&I?
Why is there a foto of the CF&I president in this article? Was there a corporate connection? Plazak (talk) 16:20, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Machine Guns??
Doesn't it strike anyone as odd, that a coal mine would have machine gun emplacements - that is, mounted guns, at the ready, for any occasion that might pop up? Was it common in those times for mines or other large industrial sites to have machine gun nests?

This is a question worth answering in the article.. it would provide much context.Drlegendre (talk) 17:01, 25 April 2013 (UTC)


 * You should read more about the Colorado Coal Mine Wars. Yes, they had machine guns. And yes, they used them. I've seen the photos. The whole episode, along with many others, is pretty much a disgrace, which has been systematically swept under the rug in the 'shining beacon on the hill' United States. At another one of these events, the mine owners' goons burned down a camp full of miners' dependents, women and children. They used these same machine guns, as well. Not 'liberal propaganda", fact. 203.160.80.205 (talk) 11:14, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

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