Talk:Combat 18/Archive 1

'The Rose & The Oak Leaf' News blog
I've just re added a link to 'The Rose & The Oak Leaf' News blog as they have connections with combat18, so it is relevant to the topic matter. I've actually registered on here as I'm not impressed at recieving a message from some jumped up poster called 'Mushroom' who removed the link and accused me of advertising my site, er it's not my site?????? -unsigned

Combat 18 website
I have just removed the link to "combat 18's website". Whilst non-sympathetic to both organsiations the BNP isn't combat 18 (although perhapps (?) past incarnations of both organisations have been connected), hyper-linking C18 to the BNP website is not NPOV in my opinion Jackliddle 23:55, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

MI5
Is the MI5 stuff actually based in facts or is it conspiracy-theory hogwash? It seems kinda CIA-invented-AIDS-esque.


 * Even if MI5 didn't control Combat 18, many of it's"far right" "neo-nazi" (or whatever phraseyou want to use) opponents believe it was and in the book White Riot: The Violent History Of Combat 18 by the co-editor of the anti-facist searchlight magazine Nick Lowes says the theory "isn't as ridicouous as it may sound." (or words to that effect).

(From Captain-c) maybe you should include this comment about the MI5 theory as a footnote?


 * I added a section regarding the allegations made against both Charlie Sargent and C18 being a MI5 set-up. One C18 member who regarded these unproven allegations as MI5 disinformation designed to split C18 and cause doubt about Charlie Sargent was David Myatt who wrote and circulated several internal defences of Charlie Sargent and C18. In this campaign of disinformation, people like Myatt believed MI5 used people in the Searchlight organization to spread rumour and suspicion. 65.57.106.52 12:52, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Vanessa Regrave
Apprantly Vanessa Redgrave was on Combat 18's hitlist? Maybe this could be added to the site. i have no idea why she would be though.

Vanessa Redgrave is a high profile supporter of the Workers Revolutionary Party -or whatever splinter she now adheres to. Streona 08:40, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Myatt
I found his piece highly amusing, his concept that people should never on any account be considered guilty of anything (except of course if their origin is anything but Northern European) was as well put as a man without a gra--61.5.136.6 14:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)sp on logic could make and, accordingly, was hilarious with its disregard for reason and rational sense. -unsigned


 * One of Myatt's essays in defense of C18 is at  67.159.26.65 13:04, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Will Browning?
Find it odd that there's no mention of the activities of Will "The Beast" Browning in here: one of the more extreme members of Combat 18, on the international Neo-Nazi stage, a former colleague of the Sargents, yet no mention? (poochie 00:06, 25 May 2006 (UTC))

See Charlie Sargent & the death of Chris Castle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Streona (talk • contribs) 08:42, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Ulster Support For Israel
There should be a citation for this.Whoever has seen Israeli flag flying in Belfast or any Ulster politician talking about Middle East? --61.5.136.6 14:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)


 * They were quite common a couple of years ago. I've added a source. Stu   ’Bout ye!  14:42, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I've seen loads too, notably in Dundonald. 86.147.86.86 (talk) 09:45, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Combat 18 video
Sorry, but I wasn't sure how to add a new title, so I'm putting what I've got to say here. With regards to the current Combat 18 - and specifically the video in which a man in a balaclava cocks a gun; I'm certain that the video is actually pre 2001, at least. I remember seeing the exact same video on a world in action special report, which I think was broadcasted around 1997.

POV
However many [weasel words] Ulster loyalists, including members of the Ulster Volunteer Force, have openly stated their opposition to Neo-Nazism,cite pointing out that it was the Republican IRA who collaborated with Nazi spies in Ulster during the Second World War,[Bringing in the IRA here is unnecessary this has nothing to do with the IRA, The UVF where NOT fighting the IRA during WWII]while Protestants remained loyal to British democracy[meaning Catholics didn't?]  [Just like they where loyal to British democracy when they received a SHITLOAD of weapons from Imperial Germany?]. Combat 18 has been further blocked from expansion in Northern Ireland by Ulster Protestant support for Israel, whose flag is often flown alongside the British Union Jack in Loyalist areas.[4] Loyalists [all?]] claim to identify with Israel's position as a small country under threat from more numerous enemies who have the sympathies of the wider world. Despite this widespread opposition from Protestant society Combat 18 members are thought to have made links with loyalists in Coleraine and Bushmills. Many C18 members attend the annual Orange Order parades in Northern Ireland. At a 1995 (February 15th) soccer match in Dublin between England and the Republic of Ireland, Combat 18 members led other English supporters in chants of "No surrender to the IRA!" after Ireland scored, and the English fans soon began smashing seating and assaulting Irish supporters nearby. The game was called off, and riot police were brought in to deal with the troublesome supporters. The Garda Síochána were later heavily criticised in the U.K and Eire'''[?????? thought it was the republic of Ireland!]''' for appearing to be totally unprepared for the violence despite being given intelligence by their British counterparts that large numbers of known English troublemakers would be in attendance.Billtheking 11:50, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

future of c18
whats wrong with that section?every time it gets put up someone takes it down!theres nothing wrong with it! -unsigned


 * There is plenty wrong with it. You can't use Wikipedia to predict the future. See Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Most of the rest of that section was uncited opinion. See No original research. Spylab 21:18, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * they have sections like that on other pages what makes this one any different?there was external evidence to back up many claims!-unsigned

If other Wikipedia articles have predictions about the future, those predictions should be deleted. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. The prediction section in this article had absolutely no sources to back up the claims. Wikipedia is only for documenting verified facts. Spylab 14:05, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

If you can source the content, and frame it as such: sourced predictions, than it's ok by wiki standards. Beam 15:03, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

does everyone like the new layout of the page?
looks rather dashing. -unsigned


 * It does look better now; the images don't mess up the formatting of the headings and text sections. Spylab 13:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Infiltration of Combat 18
Why was the section about infiltration of Combat 18 removed ? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.194.104.5 (talk) 23:08, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

Perhaps because it's not sourced, and is of various opinions of different persons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.83.207 (talk) 20:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Combat18 Locations
Why was the information about different active C18 locations removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.63.50.250 (talk) 15:02, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Terrorism
I like how the word terrorism is nowhere on this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.255.117.163 (talk) 13:56, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Tyndall and C18
A couple of sentences added to the first paragraph in the History section refer to John Tyndall's supposed actions and views on Column 18. The text is linked to two external sources, both articles from Tyndall's magazine Spearhead which, to all intents, may be regarded as a BNP publication at the time. Both are very interesting and illuminating articles for anyone interested in the historical background to BNP/C18 relationships, bearing in mind that Tyndall is clearly biased and not to be entirely relied on. However, interesting and illuminating as these sources are, they do not support the assertions made in the text with which they appear. To explain:
 * Wiki article says "John Tyndall had excluded any member of Combat 18 from the BNP". Source says: "it was equally plain that the BNP would have to dissociate itself completely from any such activities" - not the same at all. If Tyndall or BNP did ban C18 members, this is not the source for it.
 * Wiki article says "C18 members had attacked members in the BNP such as Alfred Waite, Eddy Butler, Tony Lecomber and Michael Newland". Source does not say that Waite was assaulted by C18; he was injured by a letter bomb, but it does not say C18 was responsible (though Tyndall clearly wants readers to make this conclusion).
 * Wiki article says that Tyndall "claimed that they were working for Special Branch" but he doesn't. The assertion is made in the second source (not written by Tyndall) that Charlie Sargent was "feeding Special Branch with information on the UDA" but this is acknowledged to be what the anonymous writer has garnered from a newspaper article about a forthcoming TV programme. Crucially, it does not support the next point:
 * Wiki article implies that the evidence "they were working for Special Branch" was that "C18 members had attacked members in the BNP", but the source does not support this link.

As I said, interesting sources, but the uses they have been put to here in Wikipedia are not supportable (mistaken reading, OR?). It may well be that this issue and these sources need to be here in this Wiki article, but not in the present form, hence I have deleted. If someone can make a better use of them, please do so. Emeraude (talk) 15:03, 15 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Michael Newland is mentioned as getting attacked by a gang of thugs, Alfred Waite is mentioned to getting arson attacked and Eddy Butler was attacked by C18, he mentions that on his blog.

This is the Spearhead article, written in September 1995- http://web.archive.org/web/19990422233804/www.webcom.com/bnp/c18.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.80.178.253 (talk) 22:44, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Russia
There isnt really any concrete evidence that C18 was responsible for any killings in Russia, its not even a leader led organization, its more of an alliance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.57.204.16 (talk) 21:07, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Loyalism
There is a sentence saying combat 18 are linked to Ulster Loyalism, however the best evidence supplied seems to be England fans versus Ireland and some graffiti on IRA graves, quite possibly done as a false flag operation given the graves location in the heart of republican territory. By these standards it would be fair to say the Aryan Brotherhood are linked to Sinn Fein. Hachimanchu (talk) 00:51, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

How many members are there in this group?
This should be prominent in this article somewhere — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darkkelf99 (talk • contribs) 02:32, 16 October 2011 (UTC)