Talk:Commission of Inquiry on the Situation of the French Language and Linguistic Rights in Quebec

Untitled
An electronic copy of the Commission's report is nowhere to be found on the Internet. If anyone can find this report in English or in French, it would be great. The Commission is also known as the Gendron Commission or la Commission Gendron. In French, it was the Commission d'enquête sur la situation de la langue française et sur les droits linguistiques au Québec.


 * '' La situation de la langue française au Québec. Rapport de la commission d'enquête sur la situation de la langue française et sur les droits linguistiques au Québec, s.l. Éditeur officiel du Québec.


 * Livre I : La langue de travail (379 pages)
 * Livre II : Les droits linguistiques (474 pages)
 * Livre III : Les groupes ethniques (570 pages)


 * Une des conclusion de l'enquête : Il ressort que si le français n'est pas en voie de disparition chez les francophones, ce n'est pas non plus la langue prédominante sur le marché du travail québécois. Le français n'apparaît utile qu'aux francophones. Au Québec même, c'est somme toute une langue marginale, puisque les non-francophones en ont fort peu besoin, et que bon nombre de francophones, dans les tâches importantes, utilisent autant, et parfois plus l'anglais que leur langue maternelle. Et cela, bien que les francophones, au Québec, soient fortement majoritaires, tant dans la main-d'œuvre que dans la population totale.


 * "One conclusion of the inquiry: It comes out (of our inquiry) that if French is not in the process of disappearing among francophones, neither is it the prevalent language in the Quebec labour market. French appears useful only for French-speaking people. Even inside Quebec, it is altogether a marginal language, since non-francophones need it very little, and that a considerable number of francophones, in important tasks, use as much and sometimes more English than their mother tongue. And that, in spite of the fact that francophones, in Quebec, are a strong majority, in labour as well as in the total population." -- Mathieugp 19:15, 12 March 2006 (UTC)


 * "This question was studied at great length by the 1973 Commission of Inquiry on the Situation of the French Language and Linguistic Rights in Quebec, chaired by linguist Jean-Denis Gendron. After careful factual analysis, the commission found Quebecers believed English was Quebec's universal language of work, while the reality was that most French-speaking Quebecers overwhelmingly worked in French. The commission proposed measures to encourage the use of French, but did not find the French language endangered and did not propose coercive measures to force immigrant children into French schools.


 * "Ever since, the careful work of the Gendron commission has been misrepresented. The PQ government's 1977 White Paper on the French Language, the prelude to Bill 101, claimed the Gendron Commission found Quebecers worked more than 80 per cent in English. In reality, that was the figure only for anglophones.


 * "The Supreme Court of Canada, when it ruled on the language of signs, ignored the Gendron data and accepted uncritically the argument that French was endangered, based on information dating from before the Quiet Revolution. As no one expressed a contrary view, the court concluded the frailty of French justified curtailing Charter rights."Toddsschneider 22:59, 4 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Anybody who bothers to read the report will see that Johnson is misinforming his readers, how original. I hope it will be digitized and put online for everyone to read soon. We can already find French language excerpts online which contradict the assertions of William Johnson. How shameful to take advantage of the inability of his readers to clearly understand the French text. -- Mathieugp 12:52, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * What would be just as shameful would be to misrepresent the findings of the commission for purposes of discrimination against minorities. William Johnson went to Collège Jean-de-Brébeuf, so one can assume he is fluent in French, or this élite private school is not doing its job competently.  Since the original is not easily accessible, let us translate the excerpt you provide, this time from political to English:


 * "It comes out (of our inquiry) that ... French is not in the process of disappearing among francophones ..." To translate: French was not in the process of disappearing among francophones even at the time of the Commission's final report (1973).


 * " ... neither is [French] the prevalent language in the Quebec labour market." Yes, it is.  To quote Gendron, "francophones, in Quebec, are a strong majority, in labour as well as in the total population." So it stands to reason that French should be the prevalent language in the Quebec labour market.  And his research showed that it was even then.


 * "French appears useful only for French-speaking people."  French is useful not only for francophones, but for others as well.  After all, francophones are the majority.  Even if it is useful only for francophones, that still constitutes the majority.


 * "Even inside Quebec, [French] is altogether a marginal language, since non-francophones need it very little ..." Let us understand: French is a marginal language that the majority uses the majority of the time. What an "original" definition of marginal.


 * "... a considerable number of francophones, in important tasks, use as much and sometimes more English than their mother tongue."  A considerable number of francophones, perhaps, but not the majority of them. The majority of the majority uses French the majority of the time.


 * Tell me what was lost in translation.Toddsschneider


 * This a perfect example of taking phrases out of its context in order to have its author seem like he is sustaining something he is not. The menace to French is not its "disappearing among francophones", it is its disappearing among Quebecers as a result of the French-speaking population not renewing itself over generations, shrinking to the point of being a minority first in Montreal then in Quebec.


 * What is lost in translation? The background knowledge in sociolinguistics, demographics and maths? The failure to distinguish between Quebec in general and half the people who work in Montreal?


 * The absolute failure to realize that in Ontario, a linguistically normal society, where there is a francophone minority comparable in size to the anglophones of Quebec, French is the language of work of a infinitely small number of anglophones and allophones, a larger but still marginal number of francophones, and all universally use their common public language, English, to work together as one unit, while they leave each other in peace when comes the time to go back home and speak to their family and friends?


 * The full quotes of the report are:


 * Il ressort que si le français n'est pas en voie de disparition chez les francophones, ce n'est pas non plus la langue prédominante sur le marché du travail québécois. Le français n'apparaît utile qu'aux francophones. Au Québec même, c'est somme toute une langue marginale, puisque les non-francophones en ont fort peu besoin, et que bon nombre de francophones, dans les tâches importantes, utilisent autant, et parfois plus l'anglais que leur langue maternelle. Et cela, bien que les francophones, au Québec, soient fortement majoritaires, tant dans la main-d'œuvre que dans la population totale.


 * It comes out that if French is not about to disappear among francophones, neither is it the predominant language in the Quebec labour market. French seems useful only to francophones. In Quebec even, it is in the end a marginal language, since non-francophones need it very little. A great number of francophones in important tasks use English as often, and sometimes more, than their mother tongue. And that, even though francophones in Quebec are a strong majority, in the work force as well as in the total population.


 * Les immigrants sont arrivés au Québec pour améliorer leur situation matérielle et pour assurer un meilleur avenir à leurs enfants. Ils ont été obligés de travailler en anglais pour vivre et ils ont vu les Canadiens français leur donner l'exemple. Ils ont constaté qu'à Montréal du moins, une partie des parents canadiens-français envoyaient leurs enfants aux écoles anglaises et aux écoles privées, chaque fois que leurs moyens leur permettaient de le faire. Ils ont donc suivi la même voie. Leur bilinguisme leur paraissait absolument nécessaire, et ils n'ont jamais cessé de réclamer des écoles bilingues neutres, afin que leurs enfants reçoivent la meilleure formation possible.


 * The immigrants arrived in Quebec to improve their material condition and to insure a better future for their children. They were obliged to work in English to live and they saw French Canadians give them the example. They observed that in Montreal at least, a part of the French-Canadian parents were sending their children to English schools and private schools, each time they had the financial means to do it. They therefore followed the same path. Their bilingualism seemed absolutely necessary to them, and they never stopped demanding neutral bilingual schools, so that their children could get the best possible training.


 * The main recommendation was:


 * Nous recommandons que le gouvernement du Québec se donne comme objectif général de faire du français la langue commune des Québécois, c'est-à-dire une langue qui, étant connue de tous, puisse servir d'instrument de communication dans les situations de contact entre francophones et non francophones.


 * We recommend that the government of Quebec gives itself the general objective to make French the common language of Quebecers, that is to say, a language which, being known to everyone, could be used as a communication tool in contact situations between francophones and non-francophones. 


 * That general objective is not attained in the work place, especially not in the Montreal region, where francophones are actually in contact with non-francophones day to day. The Charter was not enacted to francize la Gaspésie and la Maurice, it was enacted to francized Quebec globally because language is a global phenomenon. You might want to read this short but good text by André D'Allemagne:


 * Individual Bilingualism and Collective Bilingualism, March 8, 1980 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mathieugp (talk • contribs) 19:23, 5 September 2007 (UTC)


 * On the subject of the language of work, researchers discovered that francophones in Montreal worked an average of 19.1 days out of 20 in French. They actually worked in English less than one day out of twenty.  Francophones outside of Montreal worked in French an average of 19.6 days out of 20.  While few francophones worked mostly in English, the great majority of them worked only in French.Toddsschneider 12:51, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

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