Talk:Communications-based train control

Untitled
The content of this page is correct mainly but I feel compelled to contribute to it as it lack some important details.

I just happen to work in the Railway Transportation Signaling.

Epvo 23:03, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Loops are used on Paris Métro Line 14
The CBTC system in operation on the Paris Métro Line 14 uses loops for communications between on-board computers and ground-based computers. The loops are in plastic sheaths (? plastic ducts? I don't know the right word) which have a rectangular section (approx. 10 cm x 3 cm). They are laid within the four foot area, but not on the center line of the track. You can see the "transmission ducts" in white on this picture [](picture from the test track that has been dismantled since then). AldoSyrt 15:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

CBTC systems can be distributed systems
The wording of the article could let one thinks that all CBTC systems use a central off-board computer. That is not the case for the CBTC system used on the Paris Métro Line 14 and for the New York City Canarsie Line. For these CBTC systems there are several off-board computers, each one governs a part of the line (distributed computer system). For these two systems the computers are located along the line in signalling rooms (geographically distributed), but they could have been located in one central room. I would like to edit the article and enhance it but I am not a native English speaker and my English is not fluent, not to mention my poor grammar. I make only slight corrections. AldoSyrt 16:12, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Move?

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Page moved to communications-based train control Breawycker (talk to me!) 19:36, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Communications-Based Train Control (CBTC) → Communications-Based Train Control –
 * Is both name and acronym valid Wikipedia practice?
 * Or communications-based train control, if there is more than one such system? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:43, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Support move to communications-based train control - titles should not include the acronym, and should only be all upper-case if a proper noun, which this is not. – ukexpat (talk) 14:12, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
 * communications-based train control - More common. Marcus   Qwertyus   10:43, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

how?
How do the trains calculate their exact position? Bwrs (talk) 06:13, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Untitled
One supplier is missing from this article, Areva Technicatome is installing a CBTC system on lines A and B of Lyon Metro. Also Bombardier is providing its Cityflo 650 technology at Dubai airport. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.66.33.188 (talk) 22:53, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

Untitled
It would be reasonable to include a reference to the new website about metro automation just published by the UITP Observatory of Automated Metros. It focuses in UTO systems worldwide with an interactive map, with basic data of each line, pictures etc. It has other interesting information (articles and studies) but maybe the world annual report on automation should be highlighted. http://www.metroautomation.org Bsense (talk) 20:19, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Bundang or Shinbundang?
The Bundang Line is mentioned in the article and the wiki link is to Shinbundang Line but the link is to the incorrect spelling (sin bundang). It mentions Thales which is Shinbundang. It mentions 30 km and 12 stations, which is too little for Bundang and too much for Shinbundang (even after Phase 2 the number of stations doesn't match, it would if only Phase 1 and Phase 3, but skipping Phase 2).

I know enough to spot a mistake but don't know enough to know how to fix it. Does anyone know which of the two lines is correct? ₪Rick n Asia₪ 01:23, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

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ETCS
The abreviation is used what does it mean in this context? I assume not European Train Control System. --Kitchen Knife (talk) 19:01, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Projects of the page
Please put and change the link of the project list. 138.75.4.202 (talk) 11:50, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

Unlisted lines using CBTC
London Underground - Elizabeth Line -- John (Daytona2 &middot;&#32; Talk &middot;&#32; Contribs) 02:02, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Edit request
Hello fellow wikipedians

I have a COI as I work at Thales

The main objective for this edit request is to provide a chronological order for the origin of CBTC, correct inaccurate terms as well as make small changes to provide clarity for readers. Please note as I am not familiar with editing on this platform, there can be erros in types of sources provided.

The first edit is for the 4th paragraph under Background and origin, I would like to replace the paragraph with the following:

"The origins of CBTC begins with loop based systems which was first introduced in the Toronto subway line 3 at GoA2 supplied by Thales SelTrac Technology. Following this the first to introduce CBTC at a GoA4 was the Vancouver sky train built in 1986 which was the first driverless train supplied by Thales SelTrac. Then in 2003 Bombardier opened the first Radio-based CBTC system at San Francisco airport automated people mover (APM). Following this in June 2003, Alstom introduced the railway application of its radio technology on the Singapore North East line"

The main Purpose for this edit is to provide a chronological order for where CBTC started. While it is true that Bombardier produced the worlds first radio-based CBTC, CBTC began with loop based systems in 1980s as the existing paragraph mentions. I have also included the GoA of each line as it provides more clarity to what milestone each line accomplished.

Line 3 Scarborough : This article highlights that the train can be operated solely by computers due to SelTrac technology

SkyTrain (Vancouver) : This article highlights the use of SelTrac Technology

Both Wikipedia articles mention the use of SelTrac technology which we would now call Loop-based system. This is where CBTC was originated as they are the first 2 lines introducing GoA2 and GoA4. Then as technology advanced Bombardier made the witch from loop based to Radio based.

The second edit is with regards to the last sentence in brackets of the 5th paragraph under Background and Origin, I would like to change it to the following:

(See Seltrac for further information regarding CBTC) or omitted

While SelTrac started as a loop based system it is now a full CBTC system utilizing moving block principle. Furthermore the SelTrac page itself has no mention of TBTC and the article that is currently cited "Transmission based Train Control" does not exist. Both inductive loop and Radio based signal fall under CBTC, thus TBTC is misleading readers.

The third edit is for the first and second paragraph under Main Applications. I would like to change them to the following:

"CBTC systems allow optimal use of the railway infrastructure as well as achieving maximum capacity and minimum headway between operating trains, while maintaining the safety requirements. These systems are suitable for the new highly demanding urban lines, But also for resignaling for existing lines in order to improve their performance

Of course, in the case of upgrading existing lines the design, installation, test and commissioning stages are much more critical. This is mainly due to the challenge of deploying the new system without disrupting the revenue service "

When CBTC is installed to existing lines, it is not overlaid it is resignalled which involves removing existing signaling and replacing it with new signaling.

The fourth edit is for the last paragraph under main benefits. I would like to change it to the following:

Finally, it is important to mention that the CBTC systems have proven to be more energy efficient than traditional manually driven systems. The use of new functionalities, such as Advanced Coasting, Adaptive Slow running, Peak limiting, Energy use visualization and Co-ordinated arrivals and departures, allows significant energy savings reducing the power consumption.

This is to provide more specific terms explaining how CBTC is energy efficient

The final edit is for the Architecture section. All mentions of ETCS need to be replace by ATP. ETCS is European Train Control Systems which is used on Suburban trains and not Urban lines which is what CBTC is mainly used for. Furthermore under the main subsystems section, it mentions ATP and ATO, no mention of ETCS. The Page seems to be copying word for word from the following link https://railsystem.net/communications-based-train-control-cbtc/, in this link you will also find all ECTS terms replaced with ATP

https://encyclopedia.pub/entry/history/show/19897 This source also mentions the 3 components of CBTC as ATP, ATO and ATS - ETCS is not part of CBTC it is another system entirely developed for longer lines

These are the edits I would like to request. Hungryelephant2 (talk) 20:46, 29 November 2023 (UTC)


 * @Hungryelephant2: Hi, thanks for disclosing your COI. Could you please use the WP:Edit Request Wizard and follow the prompts for COI edits? Please make sure to list your proposed changes in a "change X to Y format" or "insert/delete X after/before Y format" and provide sources if necessary. I haven't reviewed what you want changed, but this process would alert more editors to the edit request as your request can be tracked by all editors on Wikipedia (technical details here: Category:Wikipedia conflict of interest edit requests) rather than just the limited numbers of people who have this particular article on their watchlist. Thanks, Fork99 (talk) 21:11, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Article doesn't explain what CBTC is that well or how it differs from other signalling systems
For instance, IIRC ETCS is *not* a form of CBTC, but the article doesn't explain how they differ. Eldomtom2 (talk) 21:09, 2 February 2024 (UTC)