Talk:Community/Archive 3

Some comments - definition and general ideas
The article is in good stage, so I propose here some changes of

"A community is a collection of living things gay things that share an environment. These can be plant or animal; any species, any size. Communities are characterized by interaction in many ways. The definitive aspect of community is that each subject in the mix have something in common. This article focuses on human communities, in which intent, belief, resources, preferences, needs, risks and a number of other conditions may be present and common, affecting the degree of adhesion."

into

"A community is a group of living things that share an environment, so forming a recognizable group. These living things can be plant or animal; any species, any size. Communities are characterized by interaction in many ways. The definitive aspect of community is that each subject in the mix have something in common that allows an identification. This article focuses on human communities, in which intent, belief, resources, preferences, needs, risks and a number of other conditions may be present and common, affecting the identity of the participants and their degree of adhesion."

Generally speaking, I have the doubt that a holistic approach to the concept of community should be used, because in the community the whole can be much more of the sum of the parts. This means, in my idea, that an approach as a whole is much more interesting than splitting the idea in the strict points of view of various disciplines.--Truman Burbank 14:13, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that your revised lead adds an important element to the definition of community: identification of the participants in all communities, including plants, and identification by participants in the case of human communities. In both cases, this addition is useful; for human communities, it seems to me indispensible. Thank you for bringing your suggestion here in the Wikipedian tradition of consensus; I would suggest that you go ahead with the change in the Wikipedian tradition of being bold in updating pages.


 * As to your suggestion about not splitting the article. I certainly agree that a holistic approach (as currently taken in this article) is better than a balkanized version with the different disciplinary perspectives. However, I had thought that the proposal to add brief summaries of the different disciplines approach to community would be a useful addition, without interfering with the overall holistic flavour of the article. Perhaps it would be best to simply add a few lines (rather than sections) on each of the disciplines' perspectives (e.g. Community psychology; Community studies in anthropology). Sunray 17:23, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I can identify (pun intended) with Truman and Sunray's comments. I think the article is great for the general reader and is approaching, I believe an ideal length for a core topic article. It touches a broad spectrum of specialized subtopics, providing links to many supporting articles. I think the holistic flavor is appropriate.


 * The conclusion of the "Sense of community" section, "The sum of the creative energy (often referred to as "synergy") and the strength of the mechanisms that maintain this balance is manifest as an observable and resilient sense of community." might cover Truman's second point. CQ 14:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

GA
Congratulations to us. Thanks all for your help. Maurreen 16:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Awesome! The Community article got dropped from the assessment list because we had not yet created Category:GA-Class community articles. It should re-appear after the bot makes its rounds. Should we go ahead and create Category:FA-Class community articles?


 * Also, what other community-related articles might be of top or high importance in relation to WP:1.0? Virtual community? Community studies? WikiProject Community could use some guidance toward where to concentrate some focus. Thanks in advance. &bull; CQ 16:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I would suggest Community development. Maurreen 16:23, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Great work! Pats on back all round. Sunray 23:36, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Article size
As with many great collaborations, the article size has mushroomed. We now need to rationalize additions in accordance with guidelines on article size. The prime concern is readability. The guideline suggests concise summaries for long sections and new sub-articles, improving organization of material, etc. Sunray 23:36, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * OK. That's do-able. Are the Images a problem? if so, I would "sacrafice" the burning crosses picture, first in favor of the new one I just put in (Heart of Community - I really like it for here). I suggest also a "Further reading" section for some of the more detailed coverage. Several areas can be trimmed, in that specific articles (Community development, Community studies??? ...) can take on the "extra" text. Maybe we can start a new article something like Community theory or the like. Just my 2 centavos worth. CQ 00:05, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh. Conversely to a "Community theory" article, Sense of community could probably expand to take on more content and context, eh? It should be done "expertly" though, I think. Another $0.02 worth. CQ 00:32, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No the images don't reside in this file so they don't add much content. Not remove the burning crosses! It ain't pretty but it too is community. To my mind Community studies and Community psychology are (or should be) the two theory articles. Sunray 14:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure where to start
I haven't been around much in the last few months and recently I think I've avoided this important article because its problems are so unwieldy. My dissertation was on community from psychological perspective, and it's hard for me to see this article as ever being successful unless the answer to one question is clear: "says who?"

I know there are some quotations and references sprinkled throughout, but that's not enough. People have been commenting on community since the dawn of commentary, so the only thing that makes sense to me is to have this article reflect some views of professional commentators that deal with the subject. That means each group of views has to have some semblance of coherence and be in its own section. The "perspectives on community" section should expand to encompass most of the article, and should have subsections entitled "sociological perspectives," "anthropological perspectives," "psychological perspectives," etc.

Unless the article consists of summarizing the views of professional commentators, it will not really become an encyclopedia article. The first sentence is a fine illustration. The definition that was there at the end of last year was very poor, but I'm guessing it was just made up off the top of some editor's head. People here tried to improve it, but it is still sorely lacking. Some Wikipedia articles have a large section devoted entirely to various definitions of the topic (e.g., by different groups of people who deal with that topic). A separate section for definitions would certainly seem to be appropriate for "community."

This page has seen great improvement since the beginning of the year, but unless there are clear sections representing the perspectives of various academic fields that study community, this article is far less likely to attract the interest of experts, who may otherwise view it as a quagmire.

Then, later in the evolution of this article, when patterns emerge that make clear where various fields agree or disagree on (or emphasize vs deemphasize, etc.) regarding some aspect of community, attempts can be made to show how the perspectives fit together.

Until then you don't want to have social scientists read the article and after every other sentence (some which may even sound to them like uninformed, puffed-up pronouncements) say to themselves "says who?"

I expect to get very busy very soon, but I wanted to share these suggestions, especially with those who have invested a lot of valuable time and effort into this page. - Do c  t  or  W  22:58, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


 * When an expert comes along and is willing to put time into a difficult article like this, it would be encouraging if people would either take the advice or at least respond. What happened to the "Perspectives on community" section? Any thoughts on providing a possibility to attract experts to contribute to the perspectives of their respective fields by having a section for each one, as I outlined above? - Do c  t  or  W  02:36, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

what is it -[unsigned comment by 172.192.228.111, 00:57, 7 November 2006] (see above or below)

Disambiguation link repair
This article had the link valent. I changed it to just say "valent" with no link. Valence is a disambiguation page and should not have links going directly to it from articles. (See Disambiguation pages with links.) I'm not sure if the way I've handled this particular link is the best. Other possibilities: (1) create a page with a name such as "Valence (psychology)", and move the definition of it from the page Valence to this new page, and either expand it or mark it as a stub. (Only a good option if there's a good chance there will be a full article on that topic in future.) (2) Put the definition of "valent" in parentheses after the word in this article. (3) There may be other possibilities I haven't thought of. Feel free to implement one of these if you think it's better. --Coppertwig 16:57, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Role of community Development officer
i would simply like to know more about community Development, —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.202.32.34 (talk) 07:42, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

"Sense of Community" summary in psychology section
As far as I'm aware, the first two paragraphs in the "Sense of Community" summary in the psychology section are not at all representative of the psychological literature. In fact, they appear to be little more than the collective editorializing of Wikipedia contributors, who have not supported their opinions by citing appropriate references. If such references are not provided, I will remove these two paragraphs. - Do c  t  orW  05:02, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

I removed the unsupported editorializing mentioned above on June 11. - Do c  t  orW  16:53, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Communitatus: is this a joke or something?
First off, I don't want to sound conceited, or annoying. I just can't get over the stupidity of this pseudoetymology.

The word community comes from the Latin communis, meaning "common, public, shared by all or many."[1] The Latin term "communitatus" from which the English word "community" comes, comprises three elements, "Com" — a Latin prefix meaning with or together, "Munis" — ultimately Proto-Indo-European in origin, it has been suggested that it means "the changes or exchanges that link" (Both municipal and monetary take their meaning here), and "tatus" a Latin suffix suggesting diminutive, small, intimate or local.

This is folk etymology at its best.

For one, there is no Latin word, communitatus. The bits about communis, munis, com, etc are mostly right, although I would mention that the actual prefix-root is con. However, the bit about tatus is complete linguistic quackery. Tatus has nothing to do with diminutive, small, intimate or local at all. In reality, it implies height and status.

Moreover, even if tatus had anything to do with "small" or "local", it would not be an origin of communitatus (if there were such a word). Why? Because words like communitatus are verbal nouns (perfect passive participle); the -atus is merely an inflexional ending, not a suffix like tatus. If it were real, communitatus would be derived from a pretend verb commun(a)re.

It is possible that this was crappy etymology derived from a confusion of the genitive singular of communitas, which is communitatis (note the "i").

So, here is my revision of the etymology:

The word community is derived from the Latin communitas (meaning the same), which is in turn derived from communis, which means "common, public, shared by all or many"[1]. Communis comes from a combination of the Latin prefix con- (which means "together") and the word munis (which has to do with performing services).

ARGHHH! People who don't know what they are talking about and post anyway DRIVE ME CRAZY!!!!!

A few corporate sites have even used this definition in their content, which should prove very embarrassing to them if someone calls the crap on them.

I hope that this was beneficial. I have taken the liberty of applying my edits, but if anyone disagrees, they may, of course, reverse them in version control.--Ioannusdeverani 23:01, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Solve this matter by getting an language experts work on the matter, and use it as referance material. Otherwise it is just ORIGINAL RESEARCH and thus NOT ALLOWED! Looking at etymology is OR, unless you find it as referance material elsewhere, like in a dictionay or encyclopidia. Unless you find a referance, REMOVE IT! Corrupt one 23:54, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Human Resources
I'm guessing this is a proposal for an addition: - Do c  t  orW  00:11, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Human Resources: people who work to produce goods and services in a business, also known as work force or labour 1Define the decision 2 identify alternatives 3 evaluate alternatives 4 make a decision and take action 5 evalute the decision Inventory:goods and materials kept on hand. [unsigned comment by 207.112.49.144 02:49, 19 September 2007 (UTC)]

Community Housing? and Community Credit?
Should there be a reference to community housing initiatives here? Cohousing and cooperative housing, together with other "public" housing initiatives. Community credit schemes, such as the Community Banks by Bendigo Bank in Australia or Community Based Credit institutions (Eg. Microfinancing etc) should probably also have a brief mention, with links to other pages. John D. Croft (talk) 20:14, 22 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes, I think that cohousing and cooperative housing bear mentioning. There is some material in the article on local economic systems, but I assume you mean credit unions. That too could be mentioned. Sunray (talk) 21:33, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

GA Sweeps Review: On Hold
As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria. I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I believe the article currently meets the majority of the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. However, in reviewing the article, I have found there are some issues that need to be addressed. I have made minor corrections and have included several points below that need to be addressed for the article to remain a GA. Please address them within seven days and the article will maintain its GA status. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted. If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAN. To keep tabs on your progress so far, either strike through the completed tasks or put checks next to them.

Needs inline citations:
 * 1) "He is of the belief that this process goes through four stages:"
 * 2) "More recently Scott Peck remarked that building a sense of community is easy. It is maintaining this sense of community that is difficult in the modern world."
 * 3) "Community building that is geared toward activism is usually termed "community organizing."" ✅  Sunray (talk) 21:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Other issues:
 * 1) Can each of the different items in the list in "Anthropology" be touched on? Only one term is focused on. A brief mention for each of these would be beneficial.
 * 2) The "Ecology" section either needs to be expanded on or incorporated into another section due to its length. ✅
 * 3) Single sentences shouldn't stand alone. Either expand on the following statement or incorporate it into another paragraph: "Community building can use a wide variety of practices, ranging from simple events such as potlucks and small book clubs to larger–scale efforts such as mass festivals and construction projects that involve local participants rather than outside contractors." Fix any other occurrences within the article.
 * 4) "From this it is clear that the concept of the individual is not and cannot ever be separated from the concept of community." Consider rewording this, as "from this it is clear" doesn't appear to be very encyclopedic. If it is a quote, then add an inline citation for it.
 * 5) This isn't required for GA, but I tagged Image:Community Circle at OUR Ecovillage.jpg and Image:Street Musicians in NYC.jpg to be moved to Wikimedia Commons. If you have an account consider moving them. ✅ Sunray (talk) 04:00, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
 * 6) If possible, condense the "See also" section some. Remove similar entries or incorporate some of these articles within the text of the article. ✅ Sunray (talk) 21:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

This article covers the topic well and if the above issues are addressed, I believe the article can remain a GA. I will leave the article on hold for seven days, but if progress is being made and an extension is needed, one may be given. I will leave messages on the talk pages of the main contributors to the article along with the related WikiProjects so that the workload can be shared. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 05:00, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
 * How is the article coming along? If progress is being made, be sure to strike through/check off the addressed issues. I'll re-review the article in one week unless the article still needs a few more issues to address. --Nehrams2020 (talk) 02:31, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * It took me a while to track down my copy of Scott Peck's book. But that is now done. I should be able to cover the other points and do a final edit of the article by July 15. Sunray (talk) 21:42, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

GA Sweeps Review: Pass
I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. Good job on addressing the issues. Continue to improve the article making sure all new information is properly sourced and neutral. It would also be beneficial to go through the article and update all of the access dates of the online inline citations and fix any dead links. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 06:24, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

refugee community organisations?
I'd like to see a section somewhere on the development of refugee community corganisations, and on the challenges to community development practice that they bring. Not sure if this belongs under community / community developmet or under refugees. Is this getting too esoteric for this topic? PWD 16:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes I think it is a bit too much as people are saying the size has mushroomed - perhaps the article should link to a list of community groups and organisations, and from there to the refugee one? --ale 12:27, 14 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shomon (talk • contribs)

Global Community?
I just changed the first para as it said the widest sense of the word stops at the national and then links to the article for "nation" - I think it's not the same thing to talk about a nation and about it's community. Is this cited? So anyway I kept that, but added that there's a wider sense even - a global community. I hear that a lot, but no citation. Only this site: http://www.globalcommunity.org/ or this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_citizen

Maybe an even wider one would be an ecological one, that included the environment around human beings too, but I don't think we're there yet.

ale 12:38, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Internet Communities
I noticed that the Internet Communities has a request for references or sources. I found one source on the taxonomy of online communities, but I don't know if it's relevant or not.

Here's a link |Taxonomy of Online Communities: Ownership and Value Propositions. This page has the abstract. You can click on the title to get to the actual document.Kathyfeller (talk) 08:34, 11 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Try looking through this --98.93.90.40 (talk) 12:04, 24 March 2011 (UTC) - Charley

We need to attract contributions from experts
I have been talking for more than a year now about distinct sections for the perspectives of each of the major academic disciplines. I think this may be the only way to attract experts to make contributions, because otherwise an expert may not feel there is a good place for a contribution. An expert may be hesitant to try to rewrite the whole article, or even to try to take on such a huge topic at all in a comprehensive way. But an expert may be willing to write about the major ideas of his or her field.

The creation of the page Social psychology (psychology) (as distinct from Social psychology (sociology)) allowed (finally!) an active researcher in social psychology in a psychology department at a good university to create an entire article of unusually high quality on a very important topic that didn't exist before!

Sunray and CQ, active editors here, have expressed support for my proposal. I am going ahead with it. - Do c  t  orW  01:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I've restructured the article. Interrupting the flow in some places is very minor compared to the potential benefits. Although the article has improved tremendously in the last year, it still betrayed a lack of expertise, looking more like an excellent paper written by one of my undergraduates than a good encyclopedia article written through collaboration by experts. Hopefully the new structure will provide a place for an expert to take the lead in each new section. - Do c  t  orW  03:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Sad to say, I am an "expert" (practitioner) on the subject Community (humblebrag), and I'm happy to help (cliche). WikiProject Community is alive again. I hope that you come back. - Thanks; LeoRomero (talk) 18:04, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

What is Community - As Defined in St George TAFE Community Services Diploma handout 08/02/2012
"Community" means a group defined in geographical, cultural, economic, social, demographic, special interest and / or political terms and is deemed to include those based on gender, race, ethnicity, disability, workplace, residence or age and may be self-defineed. (Social and Community Services Interim Award)

Unlike geographic and demographic communities, communities of interest are independent of boundaries.

For a community to be defined a community of interest, there needs to be attachment and interaction.

TrishFreely (talk) 10:22, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

This article is so sweet!
I wonder how I would rewrite the Community article if I ruled Wikipedia? Those who talk about community the most, take it for granted that I'm the part of the community who gets them the money, and that they're the part of the community who decides how to spend it. Art LaPella (talk) 00:17, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Major revisions by Leo Romero, 11/4 to dunno
In trying to improve the Community article and reduce its size, I'm moving chunks from the Article to this section on Talk, so we can talk all about them if you like. - Thanks; LeoRomero (talk) 19:36, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

removed from Social Capital section
In sociology, social capital is the expected collective or economic benefits derived from the preferential treatment and cooperation between individuals and groups. Although different social sciences emphasize different aspects of social capital, they tend to share the core idea "that social networks have value". Just as a screwdriver (physical capital) or a university education (cultural capital or human capital) can increase productivity (both individual and collective), so do social contacts affect the productivity of individuals and groups.

Social capital is defined by Robert D. Putnam as "the collective value of all social networks and species (who people know) and the inclinations that arise from these works to do things for each other (norms of reciprocity)." Social capital in action can be seen in all sorts of groups, including neighbors keeping an eye on each other's homes. However, as Putnam notes in Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community (2000), social capital has been falling in the United States. Putnam found that over the past 25 years, attendance at club meetings has fallen 58 percent, family dinners are down 33 percent, and having friends visit has fallen 45 percent.

The same patterns are also evident in many other western countries. Western cultures are thus said to be losing the spirit of community that once were found in institutions including churches and community centers. Sociologist Ray Oldenburg states in The Great Good Place that people need three places: 1) the home, 2) the office, and, 3) the community hangout or gathering place. With this philosophy in mind, many grassroots efforts such as The Project for Public Spaces are being started to create this "Third Place" in communities. They are taking form in independent bookstores, coffeehouses, local pubs, and through new and innovative means to create the social capital needed to foster the sense and spirit of community.

As a measure of religiosity
According to the sociologist Mervin Verbit, community may be understood as one of the key components of religiosity. And communal involvement itself may be broken down into four dimensions: The content of one's communal involvement may vary from person to person (or from one religious organization to the next), as will the degree of the person's participation (frequency), and the intensity and centrality of that involvement (for that person).
 * content
 * frequency
 * intensity
 * centrality

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