Talk:Comparison of integrated development environments/Archive 1

How to make this article better ?
I wonder what we are trying to achieve with that page.. Providinng a good list of available IDE's per language to inform? If so, I suggest that we try to establish that list here, then update and clean-up the article. I can see a few discrepancies, and there are issues about the definition of what is an IDE (already debated below). I agree that source code editor should not be considered IDE: IMHO the IDE article would also need beefing up to make sure we agree on a good definition before listing IDEs here.

See integrated development environment

What do you think? Pombredanne 18:39, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Merge
A merge from the List article into the Comparison article would create a larger, much more categorized list of IDE's. -Gimmekat 23:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Well since the timing of this coincides so closely with the "This page is a mess" comment I left on the list, it's probably no surprise that I agree with this proposal. I don't think the list can be usefully structured, and there isn't much point to repeating the information in two places in this case. —Doug Bell talk•contrib 23:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Seconded. If nothing else, the list should lose the categorization attempt and simply be...a list. Cheezmeister 22:17, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Sun Java Studio Enterprise IDE
I cannot make head or tails on what the release date for the last stable release of this IDE is. I assumed it would be launched in conjunction with an update on Netbeans seeing how SJSE is based off of it, but this needs to be verified/fixed ASAP. -Gimmekat 04:11, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Quincy!!
what about Quincy!!!


 * Well, exactly. What is Quincy? Where do you get it? What can you do with it? This is Wikipedia; edit it! peterl 22:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

size
i think size should be compared too, i would rather have a IDE thats no bigger than 100 megabytes, than one that could ballon to over a gigabyte with plugins.


 * On the face of it, this is true. But a problem arises when you start filling out that field -- how do you count the size of the program? If plugins are counted against the size, what about IDEs that are written in Java, should they count the JVM? And programs that use a platform-neutral widget toolkit, they would essentially be penalized for not running native Windows controls, for example. How much space is expressly used by the IDE often depends on the individual user. Plus, some IDEs come in different packages like a minimal version and an enterprise edition, which one do you count? Do you measure size by the installer/zip archive, or the installed footprint? What if program files are very small, but user-created data files are abnormally large? I think size is gray enough an area that, even if you chose a criteria, it would eventually become not useful. And, finally, some of it would likely run afoul of WP:OR. Ham Pastrami 06:01, 30 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Specially since that in commercial compilers, the bulk of those MBs is something like MSDN and a lot of by-tools (internationalization tools, helpfile authors etc), and not the base development system itself. Moreover, most don't require a full install (except for a few .NETs that require large MSDN redistributables that they only use for a small %) Counting those would make the comparison like apples and oranges. 88.159.74.100 15:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Language independent IDEs
This list is very language-based. But many IDEs today are not tied to a specific language; e.g. Visual Studio does all the MS languages, Komodo does open source, Eclipse is primarily a Java IDE but is easily extended into Perl, PHP, Python. Should this page be re-orged into one list, with another column of languages supported? peterl 22:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * My vote is no. Granted, generally, IDEs are not tied to specific languages, there are only a few IDEs that will function with Python. If one is looking for a python IDE, this is the place to go. If one is looking for an IDE and going to pick a language to match that IDE, this is probably not a place to be.


 * It's easier to enumerate names than languages. If you make a "languages" column, that is going to create a lot of ugly, unreadable text in the table. However, if you really desire this feature you could create another table that lists multilanguage suites, but there should be no cause to modify the existing tables. Ham Pastrami 08:42, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I would not like the current setup to change because of that. A lot of open source IDEs collect languages for their feature list, but their support is limited to basic parameterisation of the build process and a bit of highlighting, and template code generation (that is easy inherited). The few IDEs that really support languages to the fullest (like MSVC) can better be multiply named. This also allows to be more specific about with which language which properties/targets of the IDE are supported. 88.159.74.100 16:00, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Eclipse is not and IDE
Eclipse is a is an open-source, platform-independent software framework, written primarily in Java, for delivering what the project calls "rich-client applications", as opposed to "thin client" browser-based applications. So far this framework has typically been used to develop Integrated Development Environments (IDEs), such as the Java IDE called Java Development Toolkit (JDT) and compiler (ECJ) that comes as part of Eclipse (and which are also used to develop Eclipse itself). However, it can be used for other types of client application as well. Therefore it shouldn't be listed here has and IDE... JBuilder,Flex, MyEclipe, Rationa Web Developer all are IDEs based on the Eclipse framework, but Eclipse itself is not an IDE, is a plataform to build applications (and for the most part, it has been used to build IDEs) &mdash;The preceding comment is by User: (talk • contribs) : Please sign your posts!
 * Although that sounds reasonable, if you ask Java developers what they use, a lot of them will say "Eclipse". I'll change the page to say "Eclipse JDT" just to make it clear what project they are using, but removing the word "Eclipse" from that line would be hopelessly confusing. William Pietri 01:55, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, yes, I agree, Eclipse JDT should be used..., I know that most people confuses Eclipse the platform with Eclipse + Most commonly used plug ins for eclipse, that is why I think that from an encyclopedia point of view (neutral?) the difference should be explained (it should be about what is true, not what the majority believes... don't you think?)

Netbeans is not and IDE
I think that we should apply the same arguments about Eclipse to Netbeans. There is a difference between the "Netbeans platform" and "Netbeans IDE".Ramiro Pereira de Magalhães (talk) 17:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria
In keeping with WP:N and WP:LIST I think it would be prudent to exercise some discretion as to which IDEs are actually placed in these lists. I think the easiest and fairest way to do this is to check if the IDE has a WP article in good standing (that is, an article that has established the subject's notability and is not due for speedy deletion). Otherwise, we will inevitably get a lot of no-name and self-promoting entries that only serve to clutter the list. To start, I will remove entries that have no WP article at all (i.e. are only linked externally). Ham Pastrami 08:54, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Fields in chart
I would like to propose some changes to the organizational structure of the chart, and before doing so I'd like to get feedback from others who use and/or help to maintain this article.

Ham Pastrami 04:00, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Removal of "Latest stable release". This puts an undue strain on the maintenance of the chart, as I don't think people consider release date to be a first-tier consideration, i.e. this IDE is perfect for my needs, but the latest release is a month old so I'm going to pass. It is relevant for an IDE to be reasonably up-to-date, but this is a detail that the user can probably afford to check on his own after picking some candidates.
 * Removal of "Author". I don't think this is relevant at all to the function of the IDE, unless a person is looking for a specific IDE "made by so-and-so", in which case they aren't really interested in a comparison of IDEs but rather a list of de facto IDEs.
 * Replacement of "Proprietary" license type. I think this plays too much into the duality of proprietary vs open source. Let's instead state specifically what kind of proprietary license it is -- shareware, freeware, shrinkwrap, etc and only resort to "proprietary" if it is difficult to describe.
 * Addition of "Feature" fields. Right now, IMO the biggest piece of information that is missing is the feature set of the IDE, such as whether it includes a GUI builder. I'm thinking of adding fields that would work like this:

I disagree. What I really liked about the article was that it showed pretty quickly how active they are, and when the last sampling was done. The web suffers enough from outdated listings. I do agree on the gui builder field (with a coding system to quickly list some features, like being able to interactively design code and gui, or only generate templates from the designer to fill with code) I'd also propose a similar coded field to group some stuff like intellisense behaviour, code documentation tools etc 88.159.74.100 15:56, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * How about we keep a uniform month/year stamp for the latest release, so that there is an idea of how active the development is, without having to include the details of version numbers? At least, to me it doesn't seem like comparing version numbers from two different programs really makes sense. Ham Pastrami 10:11, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Since there have been no more comments, I am removing version numbers from the table. The uniform display will be month and year. BTW, all information in these tables should be derived from their WP articles. The idea is that this article exists to organize information that has already been sourced and verified (or at least, is not disputed). If there is contention over the facts, take it to the IDE's article rather than using these tables as a soapbox. Ham Pastrami 22:13, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I am in favor of adding a features area. I can implement it for all Pascal IDE, but I would like to wait until all languages have at least a skeleton of the features part. Why hasn't this idea gone forward? --194.39.218.10 (talk) 14:12, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Cygwin
I am removing references to Cygwin in the tables. Rationale is that Cygwin is a porting tool, not a platform itself.

Ham Pastrami 09:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
 * If the developer provides Cygwin-generated binaries, then they are Windows programs. Just list them as such.
 * If a user is able to port Linux software himself using Cygwin, then ALL such software is potentially a Cygwin program, and you do not need to state this explicitly. Just list them as Linux programs.

ReportLab is not an IDE
Is there a reason why ReportLab is mentioned in this page? It's just a library to generate PDFs.

-- Jan Niehusmann, 5 December 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.79.64.57 (talk) 12:12, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

You're right. I deleted it! Lumartineru (talk) 22:55, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Date field
Once again, I see that most of the dates listed for Latest release have fallen behind the actual releases. So again I propose that the field be removed since it is unlikely that editors will ever be inclined to stay on top of these things for all of the entries (and if you don't stay on top for ALL of the entries, then the comparison is moot). Ham Pastrami (talk) 04:00, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

IDE vs. source code editor
Please only put full-fledged IDEs, rather than list text-editors that just happen to you let run command-line programs such as g++ from within the IDE.

For this reason, I removed Geany since after downloading the Windows verison and playing around with it for a while, it seems clear that it doesn't have many build/compiling features. (I don't know the features the Linux version has.) However, Geany certainly fits the criteria of a source code editor. See source code editor. If anyone wants to make a separate page for advanced/powerful source code editors, Geany and others such as TextMate would fall easily into that category.

I know the distinction is often unclear, so please respond here first if you have any issues with this. Thanks -Hyad 01:45, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Does anyone want to comment on Geany being re-added to the list? I haven't used it myself, but since there was a previous objection to it, it would be courteous to at least state your views if you prefer to have it included. Ham Pastrami (talk) 19:55, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

A similar problem is the distinction between RAD and IDE (and to complicate it, IDE with some code generating designer strapped on). Some of these fall into the RAD category. But that would require creating a set of requirements to fall in a certain category. 88.159.74.100 16:02, 9 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That ultimately shouldn't concern this article -- it's either an IDE or it isn't. Whether it falls under criteria for RAD is more appropriate for an article on RAD tools. If desired, you could list RAD as a feature for comparison, but as you say that would require establishing criteria. Ham Pastrami (talk) 19:55, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Ide and Text editors
there is some small difference between some ide and text editors specialy for Emacs and VI by the way on the linux platform some pure text editors like kate/kwrite could be added because they have an exelent syntax highlighting and you just need to type a command in a console for launching or compiling your program —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.27.16.225 (talk) 00:29, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The point of an integrated DE is that it eliminates as much as possible the need to do things like type in commands or install/configure separate tools. Source editors can be very good at what they do, but they're not IDEs. Another way to look at it is that you can either discuss each component individually (editor, make, compiler, gui builder, debugger) or discuss them as a whole (IDE). In fairness, though, I wonder if CDT should even qualify as an IDE, as it too is basically a source editor only. What does CDT do that a standalone source editor doesn't? Ham Pastrami (talk) 20:18, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Question answered. Ham Pastrami (talk) 03:13, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Crediting the Eclipse Foundation
The Eclipse Foundation is a not-for-profit organization like the Apache Foundation. The staff employed by the foundation do not write the code for the plug-ins and frameworks that are available from eclipse.org. I don't think it's proper to credit them as being the "Developers" of the various IDEs that are built on top of Eclipse. Is there some proper way to credit the "Community"? --Remy Suen (talk) 22:29, 23 November 2007 (UTC)


 * A valid point, but one of semantics. You're right that, for example, the authors of CDT might not be EF employees, but at the same time, we aren't claiming that CDT is an IDE; rather, it is an extension by which Eclipse is a C/C++ IDE. This could be another good reason to remove the field entirely from this article, as discussed above. Ham Pastrami (talk) 21:41, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

I added to the Python table before thinking to look at the talk page. I listed Eclipse as the platform, in this case I believe platform can be used as synonym for framework and meaning will still be clear. I will try to watch this page and get an account soon ;-) --71.204.129.158 (talk) 10:03, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Java vs J2EE
I'm thinking we may need to prune or spinoff J2EE IDEs from the Java list. J2EE is really part of an entire server platform, which should really be compared against each other, not against general-purpose Java IDEs. Or we could do something with the fields to better indicate this, but I think that just makes it needlessly complex. There's already a list of J2EE. I think it's best to leave J2EE there. Comments? Ham Pastrami (talk) 16:25, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Cost format
The cost field is currently the messiest part of the table. It's worth noting that vendors often have big charts of their own just to compare various editions and their prices, so it may be impossible to cleanup the table and preserve all of the information. Here are some suggestions, please comment on them or propose your own.

Ham Pastrami 23:08, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Show single price if the product only has one edition or price. Otherwise use "variable" and have the reader perform further research on his own. This is ideally clean, but loses some information.
 * Reduce pricing information to a range. This eliminates the price-per-edition messiness while retaining some idea of the possible price ranges. If a company offers a free version and an enterprise edition, and intermediate versions in between, this will all be rolled into a single range of "$0 - $10,000".
 * Remove cost field entirely. This places the responsibility of doing cost research on the reader. However, you can still kind of distinguish price range by looking at the license type. For example, open source licenses usually imply cost-free software.

Any comments? I am personally opting for complete removal, mainly because I can see a trend that most of these fields would be "free" anyway. I'll proceed with it if nobody raises an objection. Ham Pastrami (talk) 21:34, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

There is also Sun Studio 12 C, C++ & Fortran Compilers and Tools from SUN http://developers.sun.com/sunstudio/ It should be added into C++ and Fortran boxes Zmi007 13:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Basic?
How come Basic language section is missing? Basic is probably the 2nd most widely used language with IDE's (next to C/C++). Of course Visual Basic is dominating the market, but there are many other Basic versions with IDE available, too. -- PauliKL (talk) 12:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Toolchain
Shouldn't this column be added to all tables? Existence of a toolchain can be significant when choosing an IDE platform. --ShalomC (talk) 11:22, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * It should be added for languages where it is not trivial. For example, with Java, AFAIK the JDK always comes with javac, and IDEs that don't have a custom compiler likely just pass arguments to javac, maintaining transparency. The same could actually be said for C/C++ if not for the fact that a toolchain doesn't come with Windows -- it's largely trivial for *nix. Eclipse CDT for example defaults to using GNU, which ships with just about every Linux distro. A more relevant field for Java IDEs might be a native code compiler. So while it's likely that some of the other languages could use this field, you still have to judge whether it's really relevant to each language. Ham Pastrami (talk) 14:11, 14 February 2008 (UTC)


 * What is this "toolchain" anyway? I would think that it means which tools (compiler, linker, make, debugger, stripper etc.) are needed to create code for some specific target. So if someone asks about toolchain, I can not see how "Yes" could be the answer. Of course, a single IDE can use multiple different toolchains. For example, when creating PROMable code for embedded system, you need different toolchain than when creating a program for a PC. -- PauliKL (talk) 17:43, 5 March 2008 (UTC)


 * For the context of these tables, "toolchain?" means "does this IDE include sufficient functionality to transform source code into a runnable binary?" or more simply "does it have a complete toolchain?" Ham Pastrami (talk) 15:25, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Isn't that a basic requirement for IDE? If it can not be used to build programs, it is not an IDE. Or does it mean that the compilers etc. has to be included with the IDE package? But often the same IDE can be used with multiple toolchains (different languages, different target environments), so you have to install tools separately anyway. - PauliKL (talk) 09:18, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, defining what exactly IDE means is a debate for the main article, not this list, and I suspect that there won't be a whole lot of consensus other than the basic precepts that we are working off of here. What the table column means, in any case, is whether or not the IDE has out-of-the-box support for building programs. Whether the IDE can be configured to use different toolchains is not being addressed. Ham Pastrami (talk) 19:07, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

.NET
How about renaming the "C#" section to '.NET"? Also doesn't Expression Blend fit in this category somewhat? - xpclient  Talk 09:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Prolog
Anyone have something like that for Prolog? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.162.249.204 (talk) 13:47, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

C/C++ toolchain
What does this column exactly mean (in the context if this article of course) ? We have No or Yes but it's hard to know when we need to update that for new versions of IDEs. We should put a note what we mean by that though. Hervegirod (talk) 13:13, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Ultimate++
Does anyone wants to add Ultimate++ IDE? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.176.17.154 (talk) 23:32, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * No. Putting a link on the talk page after it was removed from the list multiple times seems like another attempt at circumventing WP's content guidelines. (Advertising link removed from above post.) If you want to discuss inclusion in good faith, please provide links to reliable sources. Ham Pastrami (talk) 03:08, 19 February 2009 (UTC)


 * What the fuck? In a list of C++ IDEs leaving out Ultimate, and CodeWarrior? You Wikipedia editors are completely nuts and completely incompetent. Grr. -Alf

Other IDE's?
Should other IDE's like QDevelop (http://biord-software.org/qdevelop/) and Qt Software's Qt Creator (http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtcreator-snapshot/index.html) be added to the list of C/C++ IDE's?  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.208.165 (talk) 13:57, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Toolchain
Hello, I have difficulties to properly decode the "Toolchain" column for C/C++ IDEs. The Toolchain article itself is of no great utility to know if a particular IDE have a Toolchain or not. Anybody has hints about that ? Hervegirod (talk) 11:19, 29 June 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I have my answer in an older discussion thread above. Hervegirod (talk) 11:20, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

SVN/CSV integration
Would be nice to know which IDE's have an SVN/CSV integration. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Miracoli (talk • contribs) 12:12, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Inconsistencies
In Python, IDLE is shown as platform independent. Click on the link and go to the IDLE (Python) page and it is shown as Cross-platform. I don't know which one is correct. Perhaps if an IDE is not platform independent it would be better to list the available platforms to avoid mixing up usage of the terms cross platform and platform independent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by M-streeter97 (talk • contribs) 01:09, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

IronPython
As far as I can tell, the recently-added section on IronPython is pointless. Firstly, IronPython (AFAIK) is an implementation of Python, not a separate language. Secondly, there were only two links to Wikipedia articles (the rest were external or non-links), neither of which mention IronPython at all. Therefore I've reverted the section. Oli Filth(talk&#124;contribs) 18:33, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I second that. Hervegirod (talk) 18:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

iron pyhton is the syntax of python but work use microsoft framework.the problem you create is you don't want this chapter appear in IDE article not about what is ironpython !!! The article ironpyhton don't have exhaustif list of IDE with some details.sorry for my bad english ( not my native language ). 92.142.0.11 (talk) 18:50, 8 August 2009 (UTC)


 * If there are specific IronPython IDEs, they should probably be listed under the Comparison of integrated development environments section. Please note that all items here should have their own Wikipedia article.  Oli Filth(talk&#124;contribs) 18:54, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

don't understand "Please note that all items here should have their own Wikipedia article" ? iron python have is own article ? could you explain ? 92.142.0.11 (talk) 18:56, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The article is sorted by languages, not implementations. If we begin to list any implementation under a different paragraph, it will never end. Plus either your links are pointing nowhere, or they are listing unknown apps not backed by any reliable external sources, or they have nothing to do with Python or IronPython, and further more they are not IDEs. Hervegirod (talk) 18:58, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

this sentence make sense so the ironpyhton ide could appear in python chapter or ironpyhton article ? if you don't let me add link in ironpyhton article to the chapter i want to create .... shure : "Plus either your links are pointing nowhere" 92.142.0.11 (talk) 19:08, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but only for IDEs, with reliable external sources. For example, it seems to me that SharpDevelop is OK (it's an IDE, and seems to be able to edit Python), but I don't think that Unity3D is for example (it is not an IDE). However, if you can find a source stating that Unity3D or Manifold are able to edit Python / IronPython script, it can be interesting to put that somewhere in the IronPython (or Python) article for example. Same for FxComposer, it is an editor for Shader authoring, but maybe it uses Python as a scripting language. It does not make it eligible for this article, but it may be be eligible for the Python article. It seems that a lot of tools use Python as a Scripting language, and therefore have some sort of Python editor for that. If you find enough reliable sources about this trend (maybe I'm wrong), it can be interesting to put a new paragraph in the main Python article. Hervegirod (talk) 19:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

In a way more and more software ll support script or compile script ( plug in ) and think it ll interesting to name only the first software that support at first specific language but not in this article where ide is not target to a specific domain (3D, animation).92.142.0.11 (talk) 19:24, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

what about actionscript
Does a chapter about actionscript could appear or does the javacript title must be replace by ECMAScript name for speak about JavaScript, ActionScript, JScript. JAvascript is an dialect or an implementation of script by netscape, actionscript an implementation use/create by macromedia ?.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.142.0.11 (talk) 19:37, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Profiler
The Microsoft Visual Studio profiler is only available in Team System. Can someone alter the 'yes' in the first table to 'yes [1]' where [1] explains this feature is only available in Visual Studio Team System as of Visual Studio 2008? 85.147.175.69 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 15:50, 11 February 2009 (UTC).


 * I think Visual Studio code analysis is also available only for Team System. I think it is very misleading, as MS websites doesn't provide a lot of information around which version possess Profiler or not (I mean it is hard to find out). Rather than puting a [1] next to it, I think it would be better to separate different version of Visual Studio between : Express, Standard, Professional and Team System (because there is a lot of differences between them). Also NetBeans possess only a C/C++ profiler for linux/solaris only.
 * And in general there is a lot more about C/C++ than any other languages. Astenorh (talk) 00:58, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Open source license types
My gut feeling is that most people probably don't care a whole lot about which specific open source license is carried by software, as most have essentially identical terms from the user's/modder's point of view. I propose condensing all the license names into two categories: Copyleft (the GNU-likes) and Permissive (the BSD-likes). This also better represents lesser-known licenses and licenses that don't use a public template. Ham Pastrami (talk) 20:06, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I would be for putting in a yes (green) tag for all open licences to make it clear that they are roughly the same. Better comparison that way. -- Aronzak (talk) 10:33, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * done -- Aronzak (talk) 10:52, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Keep the license classification generic - Aptana Public License = just a type of proprietary license (e.g. every vendor has their own "Vendor name license") - why should one IDE supplier get its own license classified as generic type of license? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.197.180.153 (talk) 21:43, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

The current coloured scheme with Licence names is good: "open source" licences are a bad name, since some are designed as free software licences, not open source licences, (you may call this irrelevant, but many will disagree) and there are considerable differences. Even inside the copyleft and permissive licence categories there are some noteworthy differences. Then there's the licence incompatibilities to keep track of; so don't hide the information from the reader, and tell them exactly what license is in use. In case of proprietary software licenses can be ignored though, since there's not much difference in what you can do. (If I were in a cynical mood I would add: these licences permit next to nothing, meaning there's no need to differentiate.) 84.72.101.8 (talk) 20:53, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Boa Constructor
I have removed the Hatnote from this article, as the Article's title is 'Comparison of integrated development environments' and 'Boa Constructor' is not a confusing disambiguation on that. Regarding the comment about it being a valid Hatnote, under which point is it valid - 4.1, 4.2 or 4.3? peterl (talk) 08:32, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * It is using the "redirect" template, so obviously, the title of the article is not what is being disambiguated, it is the redirect to the page that is being disambiguated. That should be clear. Redirect-distinguish
 * Per WP:HATNOTE this is placed at the top of the article.
 * 76.66.197.17 (talk) 08:38, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Column order
I think all tables for their respective language should have their columns in the same order. It makes it easier to compare the availability of IDEs for different languages. It's not necessary that all columns are present, though. A blank column is useless. As a side note, is there a table editor for Wikipedia? Manual column reordering seems quite tedious and error prone. --HelgeStenstrom (talk) 17:30, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

REAL Software changed the name of the REALBasic IDE should the name in the list be changed accordingly?
In 2009, the name of the IDE was changed to "REAL Studio" but the name of the language is still "REALBasic". I am uncertain if changing the name of the relevant entry is appropriate or would just create confusion because the older name is more well known and still gets more hits on Google. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BDun20 (talk • contribs) 02:45, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Ada
May be interesting to add into the Ada chapter the ability of KDevelop to support development in such language. --Fpiraneo (talk) 20:54, 2 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, what about this options:

http://plugins.netbeans.org/PluginPortal/faces/PluginDetailPage.jsp?pluginid=13977
 * http://www.pegasoft.ca/tia.html
 * http://www.jgrasp.org/
 * http://www.gnuada.org/
 * http://sourceforge.net/projects/adagide/
 * http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html
 * http://ideone.com/
 * http://www.gnavi.org/
 * http://t-ut.com/index3.html
 * http://www.stephe-leake.org/emacs/ada-mode/emacs-ada-mode.html
 * http://www.ghs.com/products/AdaMULTI_IDE.html

Modern IDE Only Option
Many people coming to the page are only interested in comparing current IDEs to decide which to use. However, because all of the comparison tables are multiple screens long and compare every IDE that has existed, they find the page to be mostly useless. We need a way to show only current information for those who want it, in order to increase utility. A method for allowing the viewer to sort information and suppress what they don't need would also be good.

This is a general comment applicable to all comparison articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.142.206.28 (talk) 22:41, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Notability
What constitutes a "notable" IDE? I added a Fortran one (Simply Fortran), but it was pretty quickly removed for lack of notability. I'm not sure how an actively maintained IDE is not "notable." I can certainly understand removal of a dedicated page for an IDE based on WP:GNG (I think the linked page is scheduled for deletion today), but listing an IDE seems reasonable. PrintStar (talk) 12:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)


 * see for example WP:Notability TEDickey (talk) 22:25, 12 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Notability guidelines state the following: "On Wikipedia, notability is a test used by editors to decide whether a topic can have its own article." I am not suggesting that something needs its own article.  On the contrary, I am asking why or why not something is mentioned in an existing article.  Removing a table entry due to something not being "notable" is quite different than creating a whole article around something. PrintStar (talk) 18:00, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


 * The general rule (seems to be accepted by most editors other than those advertising a product) is to create a topic, establish notability, and then add the topic in context to various categories, lists, comparisons. There are additional reasons for this: the tabular format used in comparison-of topics doesn't work well for citing sources.  TEDickey (talk) 21:08, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for clarifying. This explanation makes sense.  PrintStar (talk) 22:49, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Split C/C++
The table for C/C++ has become a bit unwieldy. It does not fit on screen at lower resolutions. It may be time to split off C/C++ to its own article, e.g. List of IDEs for C/C++. Then the table can be split up into smaller tables (if we did that here, it would be too much clutter). Any thoughts? Ham Pastrami (talk) 03:56, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

I think the table should be split up: C and C++ are separate languages, despite their having much in common. Certain IDEs are only applicable to one of the two languages, which exacerbates this. 84.72.101.8 (talk) 20:58, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Further, Visual Studio doesn't support C99 and this should be noted in the support of a C compiler cell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.9.20.6 (talk) 09:48, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

XCode for iOS?
You have iOS listed under "Other Platforms" in the C/C++ section. Are there XCode IDE applications for the iPod/iPhone/iPad? 20.137.18.53 (talk) 16:53, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

KDevelop Reality Check
FORTRAN, Java and Pascal support has been available in 3.x, but this never has been ported to 4.x. Listing support for these languages and "Release 4.2.3" at the same time is misleading at best. Also C++ support for Windows and Mac are listed as "Yes?" and "Yes". While it might be technically feasible to use KDevelop as code editor on these platforms, typical IDE features as debugger integration are not working well. I suggest do use "KDevelop 3" in the FORTRAN/Java/Pascal table, and replace the "Yes?" and "Yes" by "Partial". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.65.60.132 (talk) 19:33, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

D and Erlang
Hi.

I know that list needs some additions. Not yet adding, due lack of time.

D Eclipse with DDT plugin (http://code.google.com/a/eclipselabs.org/p/ddt), previously known as Descent, Mmrnmhrm and eclipseD Visual Studio with VisualD plugin (http://www.dsource.org/projects/visuald) D-IDE (http://d-ide.sourceforge.net/) Mono-D (http://mono-d.sourceforge.net/), plugin for MonoDevelop.

Erlang Emacs with Erlang mode Emacs with Distel plugin Eclipse with Erlide plugin Textmate (?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.213.255.7 (talk) 15:46, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Geany
According to the linked topic, it is a text-editor, not topical here TEDickey (talk) 09:51, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Autocomplete feature is a bit unclear...
Some IDEs only has autocomplete for keywords, some others can even list methods of objects. Could we add a "*" to the "Yes" to let others distinguish them? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ppc123 (talk • contribs) 02:47, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Scheme/Racket
Should there be a section on IDE's aimed at Scheme or Racket programming? Probably the most widely-used one is DrRacket, and that's the only one I've used in recent years, but I'm sure there are others.

Sbloch (talk) 13:55, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Multithread debug capacity
What do you think about adding a "multithread debug" information as note [n] in debug column ? 24 Feb 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.251.17.244 (talk) 12:52, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Something is wrong with some of the sortable tables
On the current version of the page, some of the sortable tables only sort the first time (as ascending) on the column you choose. After that, clicking to sort on that column or any other column does not work. I checked this in two browsers and compared to other Wiki pages. This issue exists on this page alone (out of the ones I checked). Having reviewed the code, I cannot immediately see why this is happening with my limited wiki-coding knowledge. However, I was hoping someone else with greater knowledge might see this and figure out why this is happening.

Example is the C/C++ table. Might it be due to number of items????

UPDATE: I opened my JavaScript Console in my browser. On the C/C++ table alone, the following error is produced on the second click to re-sort the table: Kdmckale (talk) 21:18, 18 August 2013 (UTC)