Talk:Computer mouse/Archive 4

Incorrect terminology
The plural of mouse is mouse devices -- not "mice" or "mouses." I eliminated the erroneous nomenclature for you. Sources: "Read Me First. A Style Guide for the Computer Industry (2nd Ed)." Sun Technical Publications. "The Microsoft Manual of Style (Version 3.0)." Microsoft Press. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.226.104.225 (talk) 15:11, 22 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I added the term "mouse devices" to the discussion. Several prominent writers' style guides urge technical writers to use mouse devices as the plural of mouse. The sources you cite are not arbiters in this matter and the reader should be allowed to decide which term to use. Sources: "Read Me First. A Style Guide for the Computer Industry (2nd Ed)." Sun Technical Publications, and "The Microsoft Manual of Style (Version 3.0)." Microsoft Press. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrew morkel (talk • contribs) 15:30, 22 April 2008


 * Of course. Thanks for the additional sourced choice for los accesorios ratón. Dicklyon (talk) 07:18, 23 April 2008 (UTC)


 * I have it on authority from Douglas Engelbart himself that the plural for the mouse is indeed MICE. This is an excerpt from Doug's AA in an email response: Doug says, to him, Mice is the plural of Mouse. So there you have it, from the man himself. Rikiller (talk) 00:14, 7 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Right, and we have reliable sources for that plural, too. Dicklyon (talk) 02:45, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

This assumes that the Douglas Engelbart and not one of the other 16 SRI Augmenting Human Intelligence Researchers created the mouse, as verbatium from Douglas Engelbart during his unedited 1968 Presentation stated, "I do not know why it is called a mouse". At the end of his presentation at approximately 1 hour 10 minutes Douglas Engelbart gives credit to the SRI Team as creating the software and hardware that he used in his demonstration and starts to read the names. And later some of those that were the other 16 SRI Researchers participated in the Computer Chronicles, Computer Bowls I-X, "Superbowl of Computer Trivia" with the answers verified by IDG, also as indicated by William English (guest). The specific question was pertaining to what the acronym mouse meant. This was correctly answered as to Moveable Object User Interface. And points were awarded. A bonus question pertaining to this was asked and incorrectly answered with resulting laughter from the audience. And the host of the Computer Chronicles Computer Bowl stating that the incorrect answer, mice, was a furry rodent, four legs, and a tail. Resulting in more laughter. The correct answer to the bonus question was that the plural of mouse is mouses. The question of who invented the mouse or owned the research of SRI became another point of contention. In that this was a US Government funded research, specifically those listed on the credit charts during the Douglas Engelbart unedited Demonstration, those being Advanced Research Projects Agency, now known as Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA), NASA, USAF).

Doug Engelbart: The Demo Unedited 1:14:37 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8734787622017763097

With these people verifying as participates (guests) what I have stated above and as the video records "straight from the sources mouths".

The Computer Chronicles Computer Bowls I-X "Superbowl of Computer Trivia" hosted by Steward Cheifet with guests Steven Jobs, Bill Joy, Mitchell Kapor, Esther Dyson, David Bunnell, John Doerr, Bill Gates, Douglas Engelbart, Stewart Alsop, John English, Charles House,Lawrence Tesler, Pat McGovern, Bob Frankston, Steven Paul Jobs, Stephen Gary Wozniak, Lawrence Joseph Ellison, Paul Allen, Ken Olsen, Harlan Anderson, William Foster, Edward Friedkin, Russell Planjizer, Philippe Kahn, Heidi Roizen, Ed Juge, Dave House, David Liddle, John Markoff, Pamela McCorduck, John Armstrong,James Clark, Samuel Fuller, John Warnock, John Shock, Heidi Roizen,Andy Rappaport, Bill Machrone, Bill Joy,Neil Colvin, Andy Grove, Nicholas Negroponte, Andy Herzfeld, Joseph Alsop, Seth Godin, Walt Mossberg, Ken Wasch, Mike Zisman, Robert Ziff, Marc Andreesen, Scott Cook, Bill Krause, Michael Slade, Denise Caruso, John Ratzenberger (host). Additional verification of this as fact is from International Data Group (IDG), for the questions used during the Computer Bowls I-X. http://www.archive.org/details/computerchronicles —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.95.95.235 (talk) 17:25, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

The two "authoritative" sources that indicate that mice is the plural of mouse, The Compact Oxford English Dictionary (third edition) and the fourth edition of The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language; are actually not very accurate as example: Both state that "sushi" is raw fish versus the correct definintion " In Japanese cuisine, sushi (寿司, 鮨, 鮓?) is vinegar rice, usually topped with other ingredients, such as fish.[1] Sliced raw fish alone is called sashimi, as distinct from sushi." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sushi. With The Compact Oxford English Dictionary (third edition) and the fourth edition of The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language presenting their definitions based on frequency of use, not wheither that use is factual nor accurrate. (two (or more) wrongs do not make a right). This was corrected in the online edition of The Compact Oxford English Dictionary with The Compact Oxford English Dictionary (third edition) being outdated. http://www.askoxford.com/dictionaries/compact_oed/ and The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language. "The fourth edition is as current a dictionary as you can get. It's six years fresher than the 1994 version, with 10,000 words and definitions you won't find in the still venerable but now slightly dated third edition" with the 4th Edition being out of date NOT current (over 9 years old). http://dictionary1.classic.reference.com/bookstore/ahd4.html

I remember all of the sources because of my interest, after building my first Heath Kit Projects. Especially, when everyone started fighting amoungst themselves (including Bill Gates slapping people with Court Orders)(my friends and I found it amusing, and kept detailed notes as part of a Computer Enthusists Club (carrying miles of paper punch tapes)) since most in the infancy of the Personal Computer were friends or acqantences of each other)). Personal Computer history -Encarta Encyclopedia and Pirates of Silicon Valley (1999) (TV) I have also retained a 1970s local newpaper (AP Article, California) about a Judge throwing a bunch of computer people out of his court and saying that "this computing machine fad is out of hand" and that "these people play with electricity in their closets". Also retained 1960s Life Magazines, Popular Science, etc. Especially if the articles pertained to Computers (Computational Machines)70.95.95.235 (talk) 18:17, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Negative acceleration
Negative acceleration is quite a common problem these days. It should be mentioned. (what I'm really after is some comprehensive info about negative acceleration) --Xerces8 (talk) 21:56, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Sampling rate
Average mouse is set by default to have a sampling rate of 100 reports per second, input buffer length of 100 packets and fast initialisation enabled.

This article does not even talk about mouse mechanisms.Anwar (talk) 17:19, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Double mouse relatives
Scrollball mice like the Kensington "Expert Mouse Trackball" and "Trackman" models are somewhere between double mice and wheel (scrollbar) mice. It's an optical mouse with a trackball built in. Geeks.com |link:http://www.geeks.com/products.asp?cat=MOU| has some examples under the "Trackball mice" section. http://store.ultraspec.us/iogmusb4dscb.html has an example of IOGear's GME421.

There are also mice which include a laptop-style stick instead of a trackball.

The dual-wheel scrolling mouse is the third device in this family of mice (4-axis). http://www.dansdata.com/shiny.htm has some pictures to explain what I mean by dual-wheel. http://www.ibs-elec.com/ibs/computer/A+tech/ is another page with some photos.

http://www.computernyc.com/entr4dmo1.html is a trackball with dual-wheels.

Does anyone own any of these, to make some photos for Wikipedia? I know that these links sound like advertising but this is the discussion page, so they're here to provide examples. I'm looking for an owner of some of these models or work-alikes to upload, please.

I believe I have used the GME421 and one of the dual-wheel mice, but my digital camera is too low of a resolution to use (<640x480 with no zoom). I'm not sure of the exact models, but I do have both a scrollwheel and a dual-wheel mouse.

Sorry if any of this is already in the article, but I'm not done reading it. JWhiteheadcc (talk) 22:45, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Power usage
I added a fact tag to the claim that "While the implementation of a laser slightly increases sensitivity and resolution, the main advantage comes from power usage." as the reference (which is a press release from Logitech i.e. not exactly a reliable source to such a widespread claim) doesn't support the claim anyway. It mentions advance power management features, but doesn't suggest in any way from what I can tell that this has anything to do with the laser mouse feature (all it really mentions is a battery monitor and advanced recharging). Nil Einne (talk) 14:52, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Ergonomics
I think I am qualified to write and reference a section on the ergonomics of the mouse. I'm new to editing wikipedia, but please send me, via whatever means is conventional, any suggestions, material or items you'd like covered by such a section. I will compile a draft in my user page area thingy soon. A few topics I will surely cover off the top of my head: ulnar and radial deviation of the wrist, dorsi flexion of the wrist, pronation of the forearm, dynamic vs static muscular use, mouse button feedback, bio-mechanical pivot points and muscles used, tissue pressure distribution, bio-mechanical neutral positions, workstation posture and device position (briefly), and motion precision. I hope it's not overkill, but I can't help but see mouse ergonomics as really quite pivotal to the well-being of hundreds of millions of people and essential to the story of what a mouse is to modern folk. Comments and tips more than welcome for a wikinube. Seblopedia (talk) 08:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd be quite interested to see how your section turns out, though I'm by no means a subject area expert... Just make sure there's no original research :p Tr00st (talk) 16:38, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Removed seemingly pointless paragraph
Just thought I'd drop a note here about the change I made... I removed a seemingly pointless paragraph regarding opto-mechanical mice. Most of the information is contained above in the "Mechanical or opto-mechanical" subsection, though the main concern I have was: "This mouse is now the most commonly used mouse with PC and Macintosh computers." Firstly, I'm pretty sure this is wrong. Secondly, the source for the quote seems to be quite outdated - that paragraph hasn't been changed on the old source since March of 2000 - I'm sure you'll agree that optical mouse usage has increased somewhat since then. Also, the paragraph I deleted seems to be a copy-paste from that page. Thanks! Tr00st (talk) 16:35, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

jjflgdha.kjggrekhklxfsdf/.;sFPFSDF, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.227.133.250 (talk) 14:55, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Mouse calibration or registration - for real, no joke
My mouse seems to be out of register by a tiny bit, but enough to cause annoyance. That is, the XY coordinate on the monitor where I see the cursor is a tiny bit different from the XY coordinate that the computer thinks it is at. This problem is not continuous but is continual. When I google this, all I get is useless BS involving stupid jokes. This is a real issue, just like when you have to train your PDA for stylus registration / calibration. Where is the real info on this? The "Mouse Properties" dialog in Windows isn't helping, and neither are the internets. Thx, 63.125.147.253 (talk) 18:52, 26 November 2008 (UTC)


 * An issue like that doesn't occur on a normal Desktop PC, and you can't find any information regarding it. Things to check: See if another user able to reproduce that issue, and if it's specific to a single application.  If you are using a stylus or tablet, the calibration depends on the manufacturer. --Sigma 7 (talk) 04:39, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

@"likely due to the overall popularity of Quake"?
Are you sure it isn't because it corresponds much more closely to how a mouse behaves in normal applications? For example, look at a wall in Quake. If you want the crosshair on a point on the walls surface somewhat up and to the left, you have to move your mouse forward and to the left by default. If you point the mouse cursor at a letter in a web page and you then want it on a letter somewhat up and to the left of where it is currently, you have to move your mouse forward and to the left. 82.139.87.235 (talk) 14:11, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Haha, yeah video games are where many people learn nuances in interfaces. The game HAS to be second nature in it's controls or no one will want to play the sequel or even other games with the same interface.  This implies that non-game applications borrow a lot from games.

JWhiteheadcc (talk) 06:42, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Reverted revision: "an LED" // "a LED"
I believe I'm correct when I say that "an LED" is the correct form, as the "L" is pronounced at the beginning... Were it pronounced as "led", then "a LED" would be correct... Just thought I'd clarify as to why I reverted. Tr00st (talk) 18:15, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but it's horrible when reading instead of hearing it. This is about up there on my pet peeves with putting a "?" inside quotes where the original quote was not a question.  Example:  Is this article about when someone said "computer mice are nice?"  Notice the annoying 'standard' way of punctuating that sentence.  Ugh!  The problem is that BOTH are correct, but it depends on who is doing the grading.


 * Is this site strictly mother English, or can I use my native USA offspring's rules? heh

JWhiteheadcc (talk) 06:38, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

In Computer tech school, the class was reading a paper on the mouse and it said, that microsoft or bill gates is known the the creator of the mouse. Maybe I had smoked some bad weed(joke) or something but I remember reading that. I guess maybe ther person that wrote that paper made a mistake? the paper was issued by the school's sources for school academics.

Laser mice and user's eyes
It is interesting what is the power of the laser used in this type of mice and whether they could affect an eye in case the user stares straight at the working laser. -- C opper K ettle  06:36, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

nunchuk
Is the reader supposed to know what a "nunchuk" is in the context of this article???

121.44.102.140 (talk) 10:09, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism on this article is out of control
This article needs indefinite semi-protection immediately. I just caught a ridiculous unsourced assertion inserted by a vandal at 24.80.117.150 on 16 January 2009 that attributed the name of the mouse to Engelbart's familiarity with the laboratory work of Clarence Cook Little. NO ONE caught that laughably ridiculous (and probably defamatory) assertion for six months, which implies that no one is paying attention to the damn vandals. I have personally reviewed Engelbart's personal papers at Special Collections at Stanford's Green Library three times and there was no such mention in there! --Coolcaesar (talk) 09:48, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the catch, Coolcaesar, but per WP:SEMI, a single unconstructive edit is not adequate grounds for semi-protection. The best things we can do are to be vigilant with our watchlists and thorough in checking articles for dubious or unsourced assertions, as you must have been to pick that up.  Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 11:44, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * By the way, per WP:DENY, it's normally best not to make a big deal about such things. Just quietly ask for semi-protection at WP:RFPP if you need to. Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 11:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)