Talk:Conspiracy theories claiming involvement by Zionists or Jews in the September 11, 2001 attacks/Archive 1

I can't understand how anyone could believe there was a Zionist conspiracy to destroy the WTC! Two reasons:


 * 1) Israel is surrounded by enemies, and the US is pretty much its only ally.  It therefore follows that if the US unmasked the plot, Israel would be doomed.  Mossad wouldn't take a risk like that.

They already got away with the deliberate attack on the USS LIBERTY, in a attempt to blame it on the Egyptians, so this wouldn't be the first time!


 * 1) Al-Qaida has always been a primarily anti-American terrorist group.  Surely Zionist conspirators would frame some Palestinian terrorist group, not Al-Qaida.

True enough, but, that didn't stop the "Neo-Cons" from using the attack as a false pretext for attacking Iraq, Israel's biggest threat at the time, did it?

- User:GCarty


 * Random IP address added link:.

This article consists largely of Israel bashing including a deplorable comment that states that theories regarding Israeli perpetration of the 9-11 attacks are "logical." This article belongs in the NPOV dispute section. User:Boarshevik

I agree, Israel may not have directly caused the attacks, but, the unconditional support of Israel by the US Government's Foreign Policy,

, most certainly did!


 * Thanks for pointing this out; I don't know when that blood libel was slipped in here. Sadly, Wikipedia is frequented by people who just do not like Jews (they often refer to themselves as anti-Zionists) who love adding things like this. Its been a problem for some time now, and a few of us are working at removing this bias. Your own observations and thoughts are most welcome! RK


 * This page is not for discussing the merits of these conspiracy theories, nor for publicising our own conspiracy theories about the motives of other contributors: it is for discussing how to improve this article.  None of the above comments are helpful in this regard.  GrahamN 21:47, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * I do not believe that RK was trying to "publicise [his] own conspiracy theories about the motives of other contributors." Rather, he was simply attempting to make Wikipedians aware of the anti-Semitic POV that slips into comments and even articles, whether veiled by anti-Zionism or otherwise. Sadly, anti-Semitism seems to be very much in vogue among pseudo-intellectuals who believe that they will appear intelligent if they make controversial and bigoted remarks.Shutranm

Plenty of the quotes given have nothing to do with Zionism - eg the ones at the end blaming Americans (!) or Japanese (!!). This article should be moved to simple "Conspiracy theories regarding the September 11, 2001 attacks". Mustafaa 20:10, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * You are right. However, before moving it, if I were you I would check that there isn't already an article on that subject, with some other name.  I'll bet there is - and I'll bet it's not a nice concise little thing either.  Maybe having separate articles on the different varieties of conspiracy theory is not such a bad idea.  GrahamN 21:47, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * Good point - 9/11 domestic conspiracy theory exists. Don't know what to do with the Japan quotes in such an event, though!  This could take some restructuring - maybe move the America quotes to the domestic article, and create a meta-page with links to both these pages, and any others that may be relevant. Mustafaa 21:56, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Moreover, the intro talked as if the only conspiracy theories on this were Arab. That simply ignores the many non-Arab conspiracy theorists; some of them are even quoted in the body of the article, like that Aztlan council. I've fixed the worst of that. - Mustafaa 20:15, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)


 * OK, now this is looking a little less unduly focused on Arab claims, and includes a important new angle on claims of culpable Mossad inaction. Now I'm just waiting for someone to tell me that Fox News is a paranoid pro-Arab source ;). - Mustafaa 23:57, 10 Apr 2004 (UTC)

In case anyone wants to put them on a page where they would belong, here's the removed quotes that do not refer to a Zionist conspiracy:


 * "Osama bin Laden and those with him have said what indicates that they stand behind this carefully planned act. We, in turn, ask: Are bin Laden and his supporters the only ones behind what happened or is there another power with advanced technical expertise that acted with them?"
 * Source: Prince Sultan, Saudi Arabia's Defense Minister, Seyassah newspaper, Kuwait, October 22, 2001 (Reuters)


 * "I don't think it would be contentious to say that the unprecedented disaster witnessed by New York and Washington the day before yesterday was planned and executed by American citizens."
 * Source: Al-Ahram Weekly Online, Egyptian newspaper, September 13-19, 2001, article entitled "An Inside Job?" by Salah Montasser


 * "There is a possibility that this was an [act of] ancient retribution.... The US declared war on Japan, and used the atomic bomb for the first time, against Hiroshima and Nagasaki. [The bomb] killed more than 221,983 Japanese, and was the cause of the Japanese defeat and the end of the war in 1945. Has the tragedy of Hiroshima and Nagasaki been resurrected sixty years later?"
 * Source: Tishrin, Syrian newspaper, September 13, 2001, by columnist Hassan M. Yussef (MEMRI, September 20, 2001, No. 270)

- Mustafaa 00:10, 11 Apr 2004 (UTC)

The Al-Manar article that started most of this says that one "Aharon Bernie" of Yediot Aharonot claimed that the Shabak had prevented Ariel Sharon from going to New York for a pro-Israeli festival there. Does anyone have access to editions of Yediot Aharonot between Sept. 11-17? This claim should be easy enough to check, and it would be nice to be able to definitely say that it is false (or, less probably, has some foundation) here. - Mustafaa 22:59, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This kind of repellant entry has precisely the opposite result that its perpetrators intend: it makes every educated person shiver with disgust. It does show what we may expect from these people. Wetman 00:00, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The MEMRI point is there for a reason: I tried to find the claimed quote, so far without success. The link is provided; if another Arabic-speaker manages to find the quote, then by all means remove the MEMRI mention, but not until then. Every other quote in the body of this article has been checked directly, and this should be no exception. - Mustafaa 23:05, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Also: you say the chain email is still circulating? I haven't seen any signs of that being the case. Can you provide evidence? - Mustafaa 23:39, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Possible copyvio
Pedant, can you clarify the claim that there is a possible copyvio from http://www.nocturne.org/~terry/wtc_4000_Israeli.html ? And for that matter, point out the duplications you allude to? - Mustafaa 18:19, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Well, as the author of http://www.nocturne.org/~terry/wtc_4000_Israeli.html, I certainly have no objection to material being used from that page, though as I recall it seems the material here was arrived at independently. Anyway, I've added a public domain notice to the bottom of that page, hopefully that resolves any issues.  Terry 20:27, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hmmmmmm!

If 9/11 was a Zionist conspiracy, then why was it Arabs from Saudia Arabia who killed stewardesses and pilots and flew the planes into these buildings?

I can understand an Israeli man laughing after seeing the WTC blow up when he realises that those events would bring America on Israels side.

I can understand Israeli Mossad keeping quiet about a conspiracy or Arabs to attack America.

It certaily now looks like Israel did warn Israeli citizens from the low number of Israeli deaths (5)

But Israel did not warn American Jews because hundreds died!

Does anyone know exactly how many Arabs and Moslems and Africans died at the WTC?

Supercool Dude

Actually, the number of Israeli deaths is about what you would expect, given their numbers as a proportion of New York's population; I think the article explains that. - Mustafaa 18:39, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Opinion polls
I saw on the news not to long after 9/11 that most people in middle eastern nations believed israel, not Osama, was behind 9/11. Some statistic on that would be good, I wonder if it has changed? I'll look into it. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 14:01, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hi, I dropped in to ask the question in the section below, and happened to see this query. Well, I happened to have saved a URL for a CNN story about a Gallup poll, and through that I managed to find other stories covering the poll. The poll was done between December, 2001 and January 2002. They polled in 9 countries with an Islamic majority (Indonesia, Iran, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Morocco, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey).

The survey, and the way Gallup reported some results, had some problems (in particular, the sample in Kuwait turned out to be very skewed), but it still has considerable value as an attempt to at least put forward some real data. Here are some excerpts:

Sixty-one percent said they did not believe Arab groups carried out the September 11 terrorist attacks. CNN

(Not sure how Gallup calculated that "61%" - see per-country numbers below.)

Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Morocco did not allow the question about Arab responsibility for the 11 September attacks BBC

I found the full results here. For the question Do you believe groups of Arabs carried out the attacks against the USA on Sept. 11?, the per-country numbers are as follows.

I don't know if there's a more recent poll (after the release of the various bin Laden videos in which he makes allusions to being responsible); I would love to see some real data on what effect that has had. Noel (talk) 03:20, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)