Talk:Constellis/Archive 1

Lawsuit over trademark/name infringement by Academy Sports + Outdoors
Can someone work this info into the article? http://www.bizjournals.com/houston/morning_call/2012/07/academy-sports-outdoors-sues-over.html --Shawn K. Quinn (talk) 12:28, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Just being sued isn't notable. If there was a ruling against them that made them change their name (which there apparently hasn't been) or a significant penalty, then maybe. And where is the outcome? It's 2 years old. Niteshift36 (talk) 16:49, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Redirection
I disagree with the redirection. I came to read up on the blackwater company. Now I am forcibly redirected to Academi. I would like to see the old article about Blackwater retained, and instead then add a link displayed to Academi. I did NOT come to find out the new name of the company! I wanted to find out the historical links, what crimes they commited in Iraq. What does Academi have anything to do with Blackwater in this regard? I did come for Blackwater, NOT for Academi! 84.112.136.52 (talk) 22:52, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Academi _is_ Blackwater. The name has changed (twice - it was also called Xe Services for a while). Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 22:54, 11 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I have read that the Blackwater owners have retained the rights to the name; the new owners have renamed it Academi. The new owners are mentioned as Monsanto on a Swiss webpage.Obviously, this needs to be verified because it may well be propaganda. The German BILD Zeitung gives BND as a source, which is the secret service Bundesnachrichtendienst. This is astonishing in the extreme as BILD and their publisher used to have a great big reputation as being system compliant. I am just writing this as something to watch out for. 121.209.56.80 (talk) 04:50, 12 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Bild has a much stronger reputation as being a blatantly unreliable tabloid. And it's not exactly "system compliant" to trigger the resignation of the German President with an investigative report, as Bild did in 2011/12... --Roentgenium111 (talk) 20:35, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * To the second comment, the name has changed yet *again*, so what is your point here? That we follow the policy of 100x redirections? I want a historic reference, and care significantly less about how often they attempt to rename the company; a redirection attempts to lessen that role. The most important aspect is the mass killing that Blackwater did back then - whether they now have another name simply is of no interest to me as a reader. I need a stable link to Wikipedia and the role that Blackwater played back then. They now call themselves "Constellis Holdings" but of what interest is this when I wish to point out that this criminal event occurred back then, when they had another name or other owners? So I disagree with the redirection heavily, I came to Wikipedia for Blackwater, and NOT for "Academi" or the present-day company! 84.113.183.242 (talk) 16:55, 30 June 2014 (UTC)


 * If you go to "Blackwater" at Wikipedia it brings you here. Nobody is going to get rid of the Blackwater redirect. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 17:22, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Merge discussion
At the moment there are two different articles about the same company. Therefore, these articles should be properly merged. Redirecting just one page to another is not enough in this case. Also both articles' talk pages should be attributed with the proper templates to preserve the history. Beagel (talk) 09:17, 24 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Ah. Blackwater Security company. that was a separate company from Blackwater itself, I don't know if that was part of the sale of the company which became Academi. Do you have any references one way or the other? Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 23:43, 24 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I just accidentally discovered the redirect link above the other article and find from the history that the other article was before 2008 redirected to Blackwater Worldwide which was later moved to Xe Services and then to the current title Academi. There was a talk page discussion claiming that it is the same company. I am not familiar with the issue and my only concern was that the redirect/merger action was done not correctly and was not completed, so I started the formal request for merge process. If they are different things, it should be clarified. Beagel (talk) 15:17, 25 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Blackwater Security Consulting was a unit of Blackwater. I see nothing critical in the BSC article that isn't in the Academi article. BSC should be deleted and redirected here. If there is some critical information it should be added here. Capitalismojo (talk) 15:35, 25 May 2014 (UTC)


 * According to this press release Academi is not Blackwater. The merge would be out of question then. Academi link Fayyar (talk) 16:24, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * But in this case the move to the current title back in December 2011 was incorrect. It seems from the talk page archive that the understanding back then was that this is the same company. Anyway, if the companies are different, all the information about Blackwater should be moved from this article to the Blackwater article. Beagel (talk) 18:13, 29 May 2014 (UTC)


 * It was not incorrect. There is no "Blackwater". The company that was "Blackwater" was first renamed "Xe" and later purchased and renamed "Academi", we have dozens of mainstream RS refs for that. The there is no reliable source that suggests that a company called "Blackwater" currently exists anywhere.  Capitalismojo (talk) 12:52, 3 June 2014 (UTC)


 * It does not matter whether there is today a company called Blackwater - it suffices that there USED to be a company called Blackwater who murdered 17 people. I came to Wikipedia for that event, and NOT for the company, so why am I being redirected to Academi? They just renamed the company again to "Constellis Holdings" but what do I care about this company in 2014? I am interested in their mass murder of 17 people, and the name of the company back then was "Blackwater", so please make the link TOWARDS that event easy for me to follow, and do NOT redirect from Blackwater towards Academi INSTANTLY. Make Blackwater a separate article, that then links towards Academi, and then Academi can link towards "Constellis Holdings". But right now we are being forced a redirection automatically, and that just is wrong for historic reasons. 84.113.183.242 (talk) 16:58, 30 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia polices are that an existing company will be in an article under its current name. The past names will redirect to the current articles name. This is in general common with how other encyclopedias work. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 17:25, 30 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Tarl is correct. The company article should be under its current name. Capitalismojo (talk) 22:25, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Merger of Academi and Constellis Holdings
Last June, Academi merged with former rival security contractor Triple Canopy. As corporate mergers can sometimes be a bit confusing, it sometimes becomes difficult to determine which company is the dominant surviving member of a merger. Generally speaking, this question is usually resolved by determining which CEO between the two companies continues on as the CEO of the newly merged company. In the case of this merger, for certain reasons, it appears that the Academi management, wishing in the course of the merger to distance itself from Blackwater as much as possible, selected a post-merge name which one would think would indicate that Triple Canopy had been the dominant member of the merge, however the CEO of Academi remained as the CEO of the merged company.

I was initially "thrown" by the management's choice for a post-merge name, but ultimately felt that as the management retained was that of Academi, the company history of Academi should be retained as the new company's primary history, and that Triple Canopy should be shown in Wikipedia as a "former" company. Please note that due to my initial mistake of thinking that Triple Canopy was the dominant member of the merge, I initially moved the Triple Canopy company to the new Constellis Holdings name, but then I corrected that. As a result, some of the pre-merger page histories may not be as easy to peruse, however if one goes back to the actual old Academi article history, the correct history of the new Constellis Holdings article can be viewed. Scott P. (talk) 14:12, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Request for comment on merging of Blackwater article into this article
There is a question if Academi and Blackwater Security Consulting about the same subject and these articles should be correctly merged (which was not done), or they are different subjects and the Academi article should be cleaned-up and information about Blackwater should be moved into Blackwater Security Consulting or some other article. Questions for this RfC are:
 * 1) Do Academi and Blackwater Security Consulting is the same company or different companies?
 * 2) Should these articles do be merged or keep separated?
 * 3) If there should be separate articles, what is the correct title for the Blackwater article?
 * 4) If these are different companies and there should be separate articles, what is the correct target to move Blackwater information from this article? Beagel (talk) 18:28, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

Survey

 * Merge As best I can tell, Blackwater Security Consulting was a wholly-owned unit of Blackwater, and appears to have been sold along with Academi. The addresses I can find for BSC are all addresses which now are marked as "Academi", and I can find no activity for BSC as such in recent years. Note, by the way, there is a "Blackwater Agency Security Consulting", which appears to be an entirely independent endeavor in Florida, but they appear to have simply appropriated the name. Thus, my opinion is that the two articles articles in question should presumably be merged. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 21:42, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

 This is backwards. I just re-read the OP. BSC is a small division of what was Blackwater and is now Academi. The material from that smaller article should be added here to the main article. We can't throw material from the main article into a subsidiary. That would be inaccurate and we would have no RS refs that would allow it. Capitalismojo (talk) 22:33, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge They are the same company, even if the lead of Blackwater Security Consulting says created 2001 (Infobox: 1997). I don't really care under what name they are merged because there will be a redirect, but most of the text and coverage is as "Blackwater". I don't know what possessed editor Tmaull to create this page over the clear redirect to Blackwater Worldwide in February 2008, but since Tmaull has not edited since June 2011, I doubt we can ask. --Bejnar (talk) 22:39, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge. I didn't realize that they hadn't been merged during the name change. This is the same company under a new name. Nothing really justifying separate articles. Keeping them separate is akin to having 2 BLP's, one before marriage and one after (with a name change). Niteshift36 (talk) 00:56, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Merge. Technically Blackwater Security Consulting was a division of Blackwater. They should have been merged long ago. Capitalismojo (talk) 02:30, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I assumed merging into Academi was a given - Wikipedia policy is articles about companies should have their current name. Had the merge gone into BSC, a rapid rename to Academi should have followed. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 23:00, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Ok, that's great. It just seemed to read backwards in the RfC description. Capitalismojo (talk) 17:29, 5 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment actually two articals (this one and Blackwater Worldwide businesses were merged in 2009, but in 2008 Tmaull decided to create a new Blackwater Consulting page. The ancient history is with this article which went to "Blackwater Worldwide" to "Xe Services" and then here at "Academi". --Bejnar (talk) 05:50, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
 * 12 December 2011‎ Sandstein (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (102,072 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Xe Services to Academi:
 * 3 August 2011‎ ErikHaugen (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (100,856 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Blackwater Worldwide to Xe Services
 * 24 June 2009‎ R. Baley (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (101,711 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Xe (Blackwater) to Blackwater Worldwide
 * 24 June 2009‎ CnrFallon (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (101,711 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Blackwater Worldwide to Xe (Blackwater)
 * 8 April 2009‎ Pmanderson (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (101,057 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Xe (company) to Blackwater Worldwide
 * 8 April 2009‎ Anthony Appleyard (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (101,057 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Blackwater Worldwide to Xe (company)
 * 11 March 2009‎ 33rogers (talk | contribs)‎ . . (98,210 bytes) (+21,902)‎ . . (→‎Corporate history: merge not opposed december 2008 - [merge in from Blackwater Worldwide businesses]
 * 19 February 2009‎ Parsecboy (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (76,603 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Xe (company) to Blackwater Worldwide
 * 14 February 2009‎ Jnelson09 (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (75,514 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Blackwater Worldwide to Xe (Company)
 * 10 February 2008‎ Tmaull (talk | contribs)‎ . . (70,033 bytes) (+4)‎ . . (added wikilink) [to the newly created Blackwater Security Consulting, continues to edit main Blackwater article until 1 May 2008]
 * 10 February 2008‎ Tmaull (talk | contribs)‎ . . (15,636 bytes) (+15,602)‎ . . (page created) [over redirect at Blackwater Security Consulting, Tmaull did not discuss the creation on this talk page, nor even mention it.]
 * 31 October 2007‎ Lawrence Cohen (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (57,773 bytes) (0)‎ . . (moved Blackwater USA to Blackwater Worldwide
 * 16 October 2007‎ Tmaull (talk | contribs)‎ . . (51,170 bytes) (+149)‎ . . (→‎Other employments) (Tmaull begins making edits at Blackwater USA)
 * 1 April 2004‎ Fuzheado (talk | contribs)‎ . . (28 bytes) (+28)‎ . . (#REDIRECT Blackwater_USA) [from Blackwater Security Consulting]
 * 1 April 2004‎ Fuzheado (talk | contribs)‎ . . (1,122 bytes) (+1,122)‎ . . (started) [page created at Blackwater USA]

Just a short history for quick reference. --Bejnar (talk) 05:50, 3 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Merge taking care not to delete referenced info, and leave a redirect here that points readers to the Blackwater article. Darx9url (talk) 14:09, 3 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Merge since they are obviously the same multinational corporation, indeed the same notorious organization that has employed numerous names and identities for purposes of obscurity. More to the point people performing research will wish to be presented with encyclopedic completeness, there's no point in asking researchers to click on an "also known as" link to get the rest of the information they seek. Damotclese (talk) 16:51, 9 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Merge as they're pretty much the same company. – Davey 2010 •  (talk)  01:05, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Comment - I was asked by a bot to participate here. It appears you have consensus without me. I suggest you proceed. Joja lozzo  01:58, 18 June 2014 (UTC)


 * Merge into Academi. For articles about companies, there should be one article with the current name that contains the history. MjolnirPants   Tell me all about it.  13:03, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

Comment - I was also asked to participate, observe that consensus has already been reached, and advise proceeding. ENeville (talk) 19:34, 1 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Keep (12th hour) - As we all know, all of the recent management and name changes of the former Blackwater company are merely an obvious effort by the company's management to try to "hide it's past". By deleting the old Blackwater article, it seems to me that we might be complying with the company management's wishes, and assisting it in "hiding it's past".  I see no reason why the old Blackwater article cannot be retained, so long as it makes it clear in the article's lead, that the company no longer exists under that name, that the company is now called Constellis Holdings, and that the Blackwater article serves as a history of the company while it was operated under the name "Blackwater".  It is possible that with all of the management changes, Constellis may also truly be a "different" company too.  In either case, to have a single article available to focus on the "Blackwater period" seems to me to be a good idea, so long as the Blackwater article makes it clear who its current day successor is.  There the notorious and very notable history of Blackwater, as it operated under that name, can be specifically focused upon in the dedicated article this history deserves. Please see my recent edits to the Blackwater_Security_Consulting article to that effect. Scott P. (talk) 15:00, 6 July 2014 (UTC)

Denial isn't a river in the Ukraine ITS Not a river at all. maybe you mean the Nile River in Egypt
No, it's in Egypt. :-) Scott P. (talk) 15:54, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/greystone-firm-accused-disguising-mercenaries-ukrainians/story?id=23243761
 * Too newsy to mention? Hcobb (talk) 00:25, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * : In my opinion, it's too speculative at this moment - it's not clear what is actually being alleged. Certainly if it acquires traction either as reality or rumor with its own effects, it will need mention here - although it's also worth nothing that Greystone doesn't seem to have ties with Academi at this point. Perhaps its time for Greystone to acquire its own article? Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 03:26, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
 * :: Germany's leading media now report around 400 Academi mercenaries being deployed in eastern Ukraine according to German foreign intelligence service BND: Der Spiegel, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Die Welt --Theaitetos (Δ•Θ) 11:30, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * :::Interesting, but apparently untrue. The Speigel article attributes the report to "Russian state news agency "Ria Novosti" They specfically say that this is denied. Capitalismojo (talk) 16:06, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * ::::We're probably seeing the direct effects of a propaganda machine. I notice someone has already added to the article that Academi denies being involved, if the Russian pronouncements continue it's probably worth adding pointers to the article of what's being denied. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 17:08, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * :: Germany's leading media now report around 400 Academi mercenaries being deployed in eastern Ukraine according to German foreign intelligence service BND: Der Spiegel, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, Die Welt --Theaitetos (Δ•Θ) 11:30, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * :::Interesting, but apparently untrue. The Speigel article attributes the report to "Russian state news agency "Ria Novosti" They specfically say that this is denied. Capitalismojo (talk) 16:06, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * ::::We're probably seeing the direct effects of a propaganda machine. I notice someone has already added to the article that Academi denies being involved, if the Russian pronouncements continue it's probably worth adding pointers to the article of what's being denied. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 17:08, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * ::::We're probably seeing the direct effects of a propaganda machine. I notice someone has already added to the article that Academi denies being involved, if the Russian pronouncements continue it's probably worth adding pointers to the article of what's being denied. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 17:08, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Inclusion of Academi`s employees involvement in massacre
I have included the fact that Academi1s which was acquired by Constellis in 2014 is currently entangled in legal disputes courtesy of its employees who were involved in a massacre.Creator Xavier (talk) 14:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Constellis facts
There are many inaccurate facts on this current page.

Right-hand box: Founded: 2010 Services: security, training, mission support, risk management, crisis response Slogan: Secure Success

source: https://constellis.com/who-we-are/about-us

Key personnel: Constellis’ executive leadership includes two of the original investors who owned ACADEMI, Chief Executive Officer Jason DeYonker and President Dean Bosacki Source :  http://www.privateequitywire.co.uk/2016/08/15/242616/apollo-global-backed-consortium-supports-constellis-mbo Source : https://constellis.com/who-we-are/leadership

History: Constellis was initially established as a holding company in 2011 by Triple Canopy who became one of its affiliated companies. In 2014, the group of investors who owned ACADEMI acquired the holding company and adopted the Constellis name. The transaction brought together two global leaders in the private security industry, ACADEMI and Triple Canopy, and all of their affiliates, under one umbrella. The Constellis family of companies now included ACADEMI, Edinburgh International, International Development Solutions, National Strategic Protective Services, Strategic Social, Tidewater Global Services and Triple Canopy. One year later in May 2015, Constellis acquired Olive Group, a dedicated risk management and crisis response company. In August 2016, Constellis announced it had entered into a binding agreement for a management-led buyout of Constellis by affiliates of Apollo Global Management, LLC, a private equity firm. The buyout was completed on September 13, 2016.

Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-constellis-m-a-apollo-idUSKCN10G26P Source: http://www.govconwire.com/2016/08/apollo-group-constellis-executives-to-buy-out-security-services-contractor/

Creativeeditor (talk) 22:03, 1 November 2016 (UTC)