Talk:Constitution of Poland

Untitled
There is a nice list of historical polish constitutions on Polish wiki. This needs to be translated, sooner or later. And this article needs to became either a disambig or get a nice 'history of Polish constitutions' section. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 15:13, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Claim of be 2nd oldest
What is the basis of this claim: Europe's first modern codified national constitution, and the world's second after the United States Constitution? Several other republican nations existed from earlier than the 18th century eg Lucca or the Swiss cantons --Dlatimer 09:56, 6 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Simply because this is how it is defined in various sources I read. I am not aware of any other constitutions (in the modern sence of the world - thus the Swedish Constitution of 1772 doesn't make the cut, I think) between American and Polish. Although there is an interesting case of Corsican Constitution, unfortunately, it seems to be almost unknown. If you have any interesting info (sourced, preferably) about early constitutions, I'd love to see it. PS. You may want to read the Polish Constitution of May 3, 1791, a FA article, for some more details and see the talk page for similar discussions. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 11:57, 6 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I've looked at all the talk for Polish Constitution of May 3, 1791 and have made my notes under Talk:Constitution. There are a claim by Massachusetts and I think San Marino seem to be the oldest sofar found, but there is more to verify. I think it's too hard to define modern and even nation is tricky. The Corsican note clouds things further. My suggestion is that it's "one of the oldest democratic national constitutions". --Dlatimer 15:30, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It is tricky, I agree. Still, I'd like to see some sources (preferably academic) before we change it, as the popular consensus seem to be US first, Poland second. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 15:36, 8 October 2005 (UTC)


 * When I say 'tricky', I don't mean difficult but misleading. I have now read the Britannica 1911 article and the definition of modern as post-1776 is arbitary. If the Corsican constitution existed and soveriegnty was exerted then US claims of being the first may be unfounded. There is also the San Marino example (1600), which I am sure is the oldest of an existing nation (there are so few 200+ year old existing nations to check), and even still I've put the words "may be the oldest". Surely, some of the republics between 1600 and 1776 had constitutions and the US drafters must have had some examples to work from. Why was Rouseau writing about a perfect constitution in 1755? To improve upon what then existed. --Dlatimer 15:20, 10 October 2005 (UTC)


 * BTW Disappointed to see that the Polish claim of "oldest modern constitution in Europe" has been added to the Constitution page, when request to not change this page is respected and when various issues are being reviewed. Note the cautious wording adopted re San Marino and Massechusetts. Note the complaint about a lack of world wide view. e.g. where is the oldest modern constitution in Africa, Asia? --Dlatimer 15:20, 10 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Feel free to reword the claim to someting you find more NPOV. There have been no requests not to change, only request for sources (please note that article on Polish 1791 constitution gives an academic reference to a US source saying it was the first European constitution).. We need a sourced definition of 'modern constitution' to be able to judge what is and what is not (and preferably, considering NOR, we should simply find academic articles making all those judgements). I am quite interested in this question, as you might have noticed I wrote most of FA article on Polish constitution and the article on Corsican one. Btw, you may want to create an article about the San Marino constitution, I'd love to read more about it. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus Talk 13:53, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Executive
Prime minister is the executive government not president since the country is a parliamentary republic.2404:8000:1027:85F6:98F2:6219:643F:DEC2 (talk) 15:36, 2 March 2023 (UTC)