Talk:Consumerism/Archives/2012

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 03:52, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Version 0.7
This topic is certainly important, but the article needs a lot of work before it can be included. It needs really to be B-Class or better, more comprehensive and with a set of reliable sources, and generally stronger content. Please be sure to nominate this again once the article reaches a B. Thanks, Walkerma 04:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

History of consumerism
As per my edit that was duly deleted from the article, consumerism is as old as the first civilizations (see history of Egypt and Babylon) and is apolitical, not just systematic of capitalism (see China and Saudi Arabia). I made this point in the article not to underestimate the destructive capability of modern day consumerism but to highlight that it is a path humanity has been on for thousands of years. It is more a reflection on us as individuals than any political or social idealogy. For us to change, if we want to or feel we need to, we would each have to embrace a simple living lifestyle. Also, there is no "History" section in the article, it is far older than Karl Marx. --nirvana2013 11:20, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

History of Consumerism II
For the sake of ease, this is the History section of the article:

Although consumerism is commonly associated with capitalism and the Western world, it is multi-cultural and non-geographical, as seen today in Tokyo, Singapore, Shanghai, Taipei, Tel Aviv and Dubai, for example. Consumerism, as in people purchasing goods or consuming materials in excess of their needs, is as old as the first civilizations (see Ancient Egypt, Babylon and Ancient Rome, for example). Since consumerism began, various individuals and groups have consciously sought an alternative lifestyle through simple living.

While consumerism is not a new phenomenon, it has only become widespread over the 20th century and particularly in recent decades, under the influence of neoliberal capitalism and globalization.

I have a few problems with this, but thought I would air these here rather than making a direct edit. It ain't bold, but I can foresee a few disagreements with what I have to say.


 * 1) "As seen in Tokyo, Singapore, Shanghai...". OK. These are not Western cities, certainly, but what with global capitalism the whole point of using these of examples as how consumerism is multi-cultural and non-geographical is somewhat flawed. I take the point that many ancient and classical civilisations consumed materials in excess of their needs (see below for my problem with this), and the need to specify that "consumerism" is not simply a phenomenon of specifically Western capitalsim, but these locales all seem tied in to global capitalism. And, just because China is a nominally communist state (personally I prefer the term "state capitalism"), that does not mean that there are not pockets of consumerism which are dependent on a capitalist or pseudo-capitalist setup.
 * 2) I do not think one can align the decadence of late Rome with "consumerism". The whole point of consumerism is that it is open to all; the decadence of late Rome certainly was not. If anything, these ancient civilisations "purchased above their needs" in order to demarcate between the ruled and the rulers. Kings need luxurious palaces so that people think they are special. I appreciate that this continues in the current age, with celebrities for example often being associated with their ability to purchase, but I think consumerism and purchasing above ones needs are separate things.


 * So what you're saying is that consumerism used to be only practised by the ruling elite and the powerful, and is now pretty much practised by everyone? Fair point. nirvana2013 18:15, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Consumerism & Environmental Crisis'
Just reading in the new internationalist about "ethical consumerism" and I thought, wait a minute, consumerism is what's screwing over the earth (ie, Amerika needing 5.5 planets in order to survive it's current materialistic, consumerist lifestyle) and I was wondering if we should put in the relationship between consumerism (consume mean {from the oxford dictionary} use up, completely destory, use up all energy) and the environmental and political problems we are facing today. Just to name a few Peak Oil, Climate Change (although beware about CC, more than 99% of scientists believe it's caused by us, it's just that through the corporate media etc it's able to spread alot of misinformation) Over Population the upcoming Water Crisis, deforestation, widespread flora and fauna extinction, not being self sustainable, sweatshops, rich countries exploiting the poor (see World Bank/IMF/WTO or neoliberalism), corporate led globalisation etc. This view is from an amateur anarchist/primitivist so some people may disagree with the neoliberal part (look at what NAFTA did to mexico). Cheers 222.154.61.37 06:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Environmentalism and Consumerism
I have heard of a new environmental movement that seek to use consumerism theory to promote environmental values. Let's say the issue is pollution from automobile. Instead of lobbying the government to have tougher regulations or protesting the automobile producers to stop producing fossil fuel cars, these groups will try convincing the consumer the merit of buying hybrid cars or alternative-fuel cars. From a material and function perspective, a fossil fuel car and a hybrid car is the same, while it will be seemingly counterintuitive to buy a more expensive hybrid car. So, I believe this is a reflection of *immaterial consumerism* as these groups are trying to "sell" to the consumer the notion and the sense of *moral superiority* in buying a more environmentally friendly and usually costly alternative. (PS: Since no original research is allowed, currently is in the process of finding journals which mentioned this.) aCute 18:26, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Relation to Public Relations
I would like to include a section on the Public Relations profession and advertising/marketing, which applied Sigmund Freud's theories to sustain mass consumption patterns. The founder of public relations theory was Sigmund Freud's nephew Edward Bernays. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikem1234 (talk • contribs) 19:53, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Relationship to capitalism
"While consumerism is not a new phenomenon, it has only become widespread over the 20th century and particularly in recent decades, under the influence of neoliberal capitalism and globalization." This really is the kind of thing that can be backed up by reputable sociology. Is anyone in a position to do that? It would look good, shame to delete it. Alan Parmenter 13:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Unique Wiki Labeling on *All* Consumer Products and Ads
Would this proposal I posted in the Proposal section of Wikipedia be relevant to this article and editors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28proposals%29#Unique_Wiki_Labeling_on_.2AAll.2A_Consumer_Products_and_Ads

It's also kind-of at www.WikiPPP.org

What do you think? For The Life, Greentopia 20:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

broken link
http://develop.consumerium.org/wiki/Main_Page

this external link is dead.