Talk:Contemporary anti-Semitism

NPOV
As I have argued on the Talk:New anti-Semitism page, this redirect is inappropriate. "Contemporary anti-Semitism" is an all-encompassing, generic term for all forms of anti-Semitism that are occurring at the present moment. "New anti-Semitism" is a specific concept, reflecting the belief that modern anti-Semitism emanates from a very particular ideology and motivation. The terms are not equivalent. CJCurrie 06:41, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * In the sources I have read, the terms are used interchangeably. I will look for those and post them here, but I don't have time to do it right now, and it may take a couple of days. By the way, thank you for posting a comment and not redirecting it elsewhere. SlimVirgin (talk) 06:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

The terms may be used interchangeably in a few sources, but this doesn't mean we should accept this equivalence as fact. CJCurrie 06:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * If it is not NAS, when does "contemorary" (or as CJC put it, "the present moment") begins? ←Humus sapiens ну? 08:23, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't believe this is the correct question to ask. "NAS" is a specific concept, contemporary anti-Semitism is a general phenomenon. The terms can be contemporaneous, and yet refer to different things. CJCurrie 08:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * What makes it different from either old or new? ←Humus sapiens ну? 08:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

The terms "old" and "new" refer to motivations. "Contemporary anti-Semitism" refers to a general phenomenon. It's apples and oranges, really. CJCurrie 08:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * They don't refer to different motivations. One comes from the right, and one from the left. The motivations aren't necessarily different at all. SlimVirgin (talk) 20:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I understand the "A & O" analogy, but I don't see how it applies. ←Humus sapiens ну? 08:44, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Put it this way: do you not believe that contemporary anti-Semitism comes from different sources (ie. left and right)? CJCurrie 08:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * What makes it so different to warrant the split into "contemporary", and what is the timeframe for this mysterious "contemporary" kind? ←Humus sapiens ну? 08:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The sources I've read talk about anti-Semitism, on the one hand, and new or contemporary anti-Semitism on the other. They are mostly academic sources. The one source CJCurrie seems to be using is an EU report, which I assume was not written by academics (though it might have been, and perhaps it would help if we knew who the authors were).


 * Using an EU report is difficult for a number of reasons: first, it contradicts the main sources; secondly, we don't know who wrote it; third, it's in Europe that the new anti-Semitism is a particular problem. Therefore, relying on an EU report might be less than helpful.


 * CJC, can you find any scholarly sources who use the terms "contemporary" and "new" to refer to different phenomena? SlimVirgin (talk) 20:39, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Slim, do I really need to prove that "contemporary anti-Semitism" is a generic term? I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you're just playing language games with these definitions. CJCurrie 00:55, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

More revert warring
I see you're back in revert war mode, CJ. The sources who discuss new anti-Semitism use it interchangeably with contemporary anti-Semitism, nouvelle anti-Semitism, modern anti-Semitism, a new form of anti-Semitism, a novel form of anti-Semitism, neo-anti-Semitism, new Judeophobia, and several others. Please show that contemporary anti-Semitism simply refers to classical anti-Semitism. SlimVirgin (talk) 22:14, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

One revert constitutes a "war"? That's a novel interpretation. Anyway, some use the term interchangeably, others do not. (Unless Brian Klug has changed his mind, I mean.) CJCurrie 22:17, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Brian Klug appears to have changed his mind, or at least modified it somewhat; or possibly when he told the inquiry it should be called something else entirely, he meant not anti-Semitism at all, but that's unlikely. Anyway, regardless, he also uses Contemp AS to refer to the same phenomenon; he just disagrees about the causes, sources, and consequences, but he agrees that there's a new wave of it.


 * You have far too black-and-white a view of these arguments, CJ, with your for and against mentality. The academics just aren't like that. I suspect that if you, me, and Norman Finkelstein were sitting together debating, Finkelstein and I would agree about this more often than either of us would agree with you. SlimVirgin (talk) 22:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm speechless. Are you certain that you aren't losing perspective about these matters?


 * Btw, what's the correct protocol for putting NPOV notices on redirects? CJCurrie 22:25, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

And where does Klug use "contemporary anti-Semitism" at all? CJCurrie 22:28, 7 September 2006 (UTC)