Talk:Contemporary fantasy

(Harry Potter)
This document has a list of contemporary fantasy examples --- but it fails to list the most well-known contemporary fantasy series of all times -- the Harry Potter novels!

I'm thinking of adding it. But just in case, I think I'll wait 48 hours after posting this before I add it. If I check back and find that nobody has objected -- and that nobody else has gone ahead and added it themselves, then I'll add it.

(It seems pretty obvious that HARRY POTTER is in the Contemporary Fantasy genre --- but just in case someone disagrees, I'll wait 48 hours before I go ahead and add it.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Red Angel (talk • contribs) 02:23, 20 October 2006‎ (UTC).


 * Six years later I agree that Harry Potter belongs here --and disagree that it is high fantasy rather than low as the article says (below). --P64 (talk) 19:48, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Night Watch
Because I'm bored; I've decided to add Night Watch to the list. Seriously, modern-day Moscow with wizards operating in conditions of utter secrecy. It can't not be on the main list. It's like the Russian version of Harry Potter. But better, and less childish. -someone —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.158.162.118 (talk) 22:57, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Fantasy/horror distinction
The article says:

''Contemporary fantasy is also to be distinguished from horror fiction, which also often has contemporary settings. When encountering magical events and creatures, the protagonist of a horror novel is horrified, while the protagonist of a fantasy novel (contemporary or otherwise) is filled with a sense of joy and wonder. Horrifying events may happen, but the fundamental distinction is vital.''

The distinction is more complicated than this. Fantasy is primarily about magic whereas horror is primarily about the occult. Granted, the line between the two can get fuzzy, and there's some overlap (such as the werewolves in Harry Potter). But in general, the two genres differ in their conventions and in the types of supernatural stuff they depict. marbeh raglaim (talk) 18:06, 19 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Since magic is a major part of the occult, I don't see your point here. Solri (talk) 11:34, 11 January 2013 (UTC)


 * I too expect no help from the purported magic/occult distinction, and probably miss its meaning.
 * Following the Clute & Grant Encyclopedia, horror fiction is distinguished by its (intended) generation of horror in the reader. It isn't crucial that "magical events and creatures" evoke the horror. Nor is it crucial that magical events and creatures in fantasy evoke "joy and wonder". --P64 (talk) 16:31, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Modern v. Contemporary
Literary people would dispute this. Modern is usually after the industrial revolution has finished, and probably from the Modernist movement, so 1920-1950's is a fair shot, or anything that is not set in the NOW, but isn't say, Victorian England. Contemporary means in the now. This subgenre is more about the time it's set than it is about the places it is set. I'll get to fixing it if no one else does.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 14:58, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Fantasy All Template
I noticed that this article does not have the fantasy all template attached to the bottom of it.

I believe it should be there as that it is a Fantasy Sub-Genre, and it is furthermore listed on the template.

I have added it, if anyone disagrees it can certainly be discussed here.

Zellfaze (talk) 23:44, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Low v. Contemporary
The article says:

''The contemporary fantasy and low fantasy genres can overlap as both are defined as being set in the real world. There are differences, however. Low fantasies are set in the real world but not necessarily in the modern age, in which case they would not be contemporary fantasy. Contemporary fantasies are set in the real world but may also include distinct fantasy settings within it, such as the Harry Potter series, in which case they would be high rather than low fantasy.''

What is the support for this usage? I think contemporary fantasy (if it isn't fantasy created recently) should be a subgenre of low fantasy.

Re Harry Potter, I don't believe its distinct fantasy settings make it "high". Hogwarts, for example, is in Scotland. The Prime Minister is the Prime Minister of the UK of GB & NI, as readers know despite that Rowling does not accurately use any 1990s U.K. Prime Minster in that role.

The Chronicles of Narnia is a good example of high fantasy despite a frame story (in six volumes?) that is 1950s "contemporary fantasy" set in the 1940s (in five volumes?) --as Rowling wrote some 2000s contemporary fantasy set in the 1990s.

--P64 (talk) 19:48, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * There's disagreement as to whether Harry Potter is high or low fantasy, but I guess more people count it as high. Rowling does refer to a "wizarding world", after all. I think you have to see "High" and "low" as a continuum, with worlds that have absolutely no connection with ours (e.g., Earthsea) at one end, and stories where our world is the only one that exists at the other. Fantasy where our world exists alongside another fall somewhere in the middle, with Harry Potter being at the low end of high fantasy, and Gaiman's Neverwhere coming at the high end of low fantasy. Solri (talk) 11:32, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Urban Fantasy a subgenre?
I do not see Urban Fantasy as a subgenre of Contemporary.

Urban Fantasy can take place in the future (but is rare, I admit). But more important, it takes place in Renaissance setting or Victorian England a lot. Steampunk! It can even take place in a totally fictional world (The Guard stories in Ankh-Morpork? Totally urban and not even steampunk).

I would say, it "often" overlaps. Maybe even just "occasionally"? Opinions? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.114.62.122 (talk) 11:05, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Totally agree with this. "Urban fantasy" means fantasy that's focussed on urban environments - not necessarily real world contemporary ones. --Irrevenant [ talk ] 06:59, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

"In other media" section
Why is this even a section? Contemporary fantasy isn't specifically limited to novels. That distinction shouldn't even exist, IMO. --Irrevenant [ talk ] 06:54, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Agreed. -Jason A. Quest (talk) 12:09, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

C.S. Lewis's The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe
Who said it wasn't contemporary fantasy?--Jack Upland (talk) 08:55, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 7 September 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Withdraw by nominator. After looking into it some more I agree with the argument presented. (non-admin closure) ZXCVBNM (TALK) 19:39, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Contemporary fantasy → Modern fantasy – The name "modern fantasy" gets many more hits in Google Ngrams for the term. It makes more sense as the title for this article. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 18:52, 7 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Oppose based on evidence provided. "Modern fantasy" may get more raw hits, but not all of those hits are usages that relate to the concept discussed in this article. Many (most?) of the Google books results for "modern fantasy" are talking about fantasy written in the modern era (for various definitions of 'modern'), not fantasy stories that tak place in a modern setting. Colin M (talk) 15:49, 9 September 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Fate
I believe Fate and Type Moon are known for having a lot of overpowered magical and godly characters. I don't know that much about the franchise, but the summary of it here seems off. GoutComplex (talk) 04:03, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Proposed blank and redirect
I think this page should be blanked and become a redirect to Urban fantasy.

1. It currently has no reliable sources about Contemporary fantasy, and looking at Google/Google Scholar/JSTOR results, I don’t think there are multiple independent reliable sources discussing the term. Most hits are not reliable or look like an adjective modifying a noun. The Encyclopedia of Fantasy entry is interesting but I don't think it's a clear subgenre.

2. The (unsourced) definition is meaningless and says nothing about the text, only when it was written.

3. Most of the article is a list of works with very little in common. What’s the common ground between "The Bottle Imp", The Borrowers, The Garden of Sinners, and Harry Potter? People searching for contemporary fantasy are probably looking for fantasy stories set in the modern world, and Urban fantasy is the most common phrase for this per Google Ngrams. CohenTheBohemian (talk) 04:38, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi CohenTheBohemian! Given that this article has existed for over 21 years now, I think more of a discussion is needed before it is defacto deleted. If you would like to propose a merge, I think it is best to follow the procedure outlined at WP:MERGEPROP. If the intent is a deletion and redirect, it should probably go through WP:AFD. - Bilby (talk) 05:39, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. I'll do that and tag you when I do. CohenTheBohemian (talk) 15:06, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I am sorry but such a discussion needs an AfD. I'd restore it myself (but I see Bilby bet me to it) per this having an entry in the EoF as linked above. CohenTheBohemian, if you want to see this deleted, please use WP:AFD. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&#124; reply here 02:12, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Possible sources for an overlapping description
Beyond the well-agreed upon definition that this article was initially based around (that we now have 4 sources for), I'm starting to see a related, overlapping definition of contemporary fantasy. Seems to be more closely related to paranormal/urban fantasy, overlaps also with horror, again generally set in the mundane world. Not quite confident enough in my own understanding to include at the moment, so I'm collecting here to perhaps add later. Until I or someone adds into the article, I'll add to this list as I find more.

&mdash;siro&chi;o 22:41, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Burcher, et al. "Core Collections in Genre Studies: Fantasy Fiction 101"
 * Bacon-Smith Science Fiction Culture


 * I've added a paragraph covering this. &mdash;siro&chi;o 19:19, 11 August 2023 (UTC)