Talk:Contingent work/Archive 1

casual work
I am considering moving this article to casual work. Although I've had major input into this article, with hindsight I think that the term casual work is more widespread, and arguably more NPOV than contingent work - since casual work is more likely to be used by employment agencies and in classified listings - and the meaning of the two phrases is very similar.

That said - casual work perhaps isn't quite the same thing as contingent work. In particular, part time jobs are often considered contingent work, but aren't necessarily casual. And full time jobs in organisations that have an unusually high staff turnover might be considered contingent work, even if they're not casual.

Also - the term contingent work seems to be used more commonly by those who consider it a social issue. Although such an opinion wouldn't be NPOV in itself, I still believe that it's legitimate to have an encyclopædia article covering those viewpoints. And I feel as though it would be more appropriate in an article about contingent work than in one about casual work.

At the moment, I don't think there's enough scope to justify casual work and contingent work being two separate articles, though that might change in the future. If there is scope to have articles on both subjects, they should definitely link to each other - and if there isn't, then one should redirect to the other.

So I'm undecided, and would like opinions. Thanks. Squashy 23:59, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't think "official terminology" is necessarily always more NPOV than how people speak. Official terminology sometimes has a tendance of becoming newspeak, and there is a policy here against weasel words. So, I think the two could be kept separate. However, the content of the article is actually more important than the name, so if the contents are identical, they should be joined. We could then have a debate on which name is most appropriate. Lapaz 23:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Problem seem to have been solved a long time ago:) Lapaz 23:18, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

merge precarity here
Someone created the "precarity" article, which apparently has now entered the English language. It comes from the French "précarité", and for all I can see, is the exact synonym of contingent work and other McJobs. So maybe we should simplify things, as WIkipedia is not a dictionnary, and have arguments and analyzes unified in the same article, shouldn't we? Lapaz 23:14, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

precarity an cont. work seperate
i don't think these should be merged. whilst it does seem a synonym of contingent work, it also varies differently, as this term has a unique basis in the current social movements though out europe. i think the term precarity represents a unique analysis, different to "contingent work".

maybe instead what should happen, is some contributions on the unique political analysis of work that has risen out of europe recently because this is the context in which precarity has entered the language. i think precarity is part of the discourse of a new neo-marxist analysis of labour, indeed, talk of "the precariat" has risen in political economy journals.

i think we should pay attention to the new discourse in which this word is being used. this analysis is new and just forming. to link precarity to contingent work at this stage, would not take into account the new analysis which is only just forming around this particular word.

the word has become political, and linking to contingent work could constitute a silencing of the analysis which is unique to this word.

i do agree that in some cases it is good to merge simular analysis on particular lines, but i don't think a definition of this word is so set in stone yet.


 * I can't really tell you. To me, précarité (but I'm French...) is how social movements call what economic liberals call "flexibility": no job security is the most important factor of being précaire, but also working in low-pay jobs (similar to the working poor phenomenon) & also people that goes back & forth from being on the dole and having a bit of job, one day, a few weeks, even some months, and then back on the dole. In its most direct sense, précarité is when you're never assured that tomorrow you will not lose your job & your flat. The New Employment Contract and the First Employment Contract threaten a category of persons to push them into precarity state. So maybe you're right after all, it does cover a larger sense than just "contingent work", if you consider by CW that it refers ONLY to the job; précarité, on the other hand, is like a state of existence, which affects your social & affective life (it is difficult to plan to have children if you're not sure of being able to bring them food next year), not only your "economic life". So, ultimately I believe it depends on what you understand by "contingent work", I'm not familiar with that notion. One thing is sure though: someone who lives doing a few music concerts or someone who does McJobs is definitely a précaire. I do see the point you lift about marxism, although that is a bit limitating the expression to a certain type of persons (more or less marxists/marxians...) while précaire is used in the common language by just everybody in France. However, if you wanted, you could relate it to the autonomist marxist analysis of "social workers" (which included women, immigrants & especially illegal aliens - they are précaire without any doubt -- in their definition of proletariat (while traditional Marxist only considered the factory's worker as a member of the proletariat). Lapaz 17:41, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

I think it is worth dealing with term "precarity"separately, precisely because it is much more an ideologicalk term linked to the new Eurocentrism being promoted by the likes of Foti and the Euromayday crowd and other reactionaries. Clealy it is linked to social amnesia and the liquidation of class consciousness in the creation of new categories and the promotion of a European social identity. In English the terms Casual Work and casualisation have been used more and it should be taken back to things like the Industrial reserve army Great Dock Strike etc.Harrypotter 12:15, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Maintain Contingent Work Entry
I agree with most of what Harry Potter wrote. Casual labor is associated with British terminology and, in the US, it is a quaint term.

In terms of information, are readers necessarily better served by what multi-national corporations (e.g., Manpower) call their "temps"? It seems that a critical, American perspective is warranted and that the terms contingent, casual, and precarity are historically and materially unique. For example, contingent workers include independent contractors who can earn exceptionally high incomes. They are contingent. So are lettuce pickers. It is an expansive term which covers the tenuousness of the employment and/or its variability.

The decision to combine entries would erase the term after a historical struggle to get the government to own up to the fact that the workplace was restructuring. It took the Bureau of Labor Stats about 20 years to get approval to conduct their first survey on contingent workers. "Contingent work" is peculiarly historic to the struggle to count workers who were shed by corporations and replaced with temps, etc. The perversion of contingent work is demonstrated by class action lawsuits, such as the Microsoft Permatemp case.

Finally, in good times, when employment rates are high, it may seem easier to combine all these work forms together. Just wait till the next recession hits.

The term "contingent work" should not be eroded or erased.

propose merge from Contingent Workforce Outsourcing
I have proposed merging Contingent Workforce Outsourcing to here; the other page appears redundant to several articles, permatemp, payroll service bureau, and a few others. Even after a rewrite it still sounds like a sales pitch. Most of the links from there appear promotional in nature. Have Gun, Will Travel 01:49, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

There is also now an article on Contingent Workforce (and Management) with which this could be merged or associated. Would a portal of some sort or something similar be appropriate to connect all of these topics?

--TheBackpack 14:19, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

usage example from industry
For what it's worth, SourceRight Solutions uses the term "contingent labor" in marketing their recruitment/staff management services to businesses. See here: http://www.sourcerightsolutions.com/managed_service_programs.html

MyDogHasFleas (talk) 15:56, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
 * This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
 * There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
 * It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
 * In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 00:53, 21 June 2013 (UTC)