Talk:Cornelius Vanderbilt

dupl
1. change "in 1650 as an indentured servant in 1650" to "as an indentured servant in 1650". 2. "eventually added to Aertson's village name" --> to Aertson's name, not village name

Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2015
Please change "(m. 1869—1877; his death)" to "(m. 1869—1877; her death)" because his spouse was a woman.

107.77.87.91 (talk) 02:07, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * this refers to when Vanderbilt himself died, not his wife Snuggums (talk / edits) 02:50, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Article quoted in citation #3 is quoted incorrectly.
Early in the article, there is a quotation. "Contemporaries, too, often hated or feared Vanderbilt or at least considered him an unmannered brute. While Vanderbilt could be a rascal, combative and cunning, he was much more a builder and a wrecker....being honorable, shrewd, and hard-working."[3]

I have checked the source of that quotation, Journal of American History (2011) 98 (2): 544. doi: 10.1093/jahist/jar305, online (http://jah.oxfordjournals.org/content/98/2/544.1.full). The person who added the quotation to the Vanderbilt article has copied the quotation incorrectly. It should read, "Contemporaries, too, often hated or feared Vanderbilt or at least considered him an unmannered brute. While Vanderbilt could be a rascal, combative and cunning, he was much more a builder than a wrecker....being honorable, shrewd, and hard-working."[3]

The discrepancy comes in the phrase, "builder and a wrecker". The original reads, "builder THAN a wrecker" (I have added uppercase for emphasis.) In the original, with "than" serving as a comparative, the quote makes sense, contrasting "builder" and "wrecker". In the incorrect quote, "builder and a wrecker" the contrast is gone and the resulting phrase is an oxymoron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.194.86.30 (talk) 19:58, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
 * So fix it. Esrever (klaT) 20:45, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

GA nomination
i'm nominating for GA since the revscore indicates GA https://ores.wmflabs.org/scores/enwiki/wp10/708842931/ -- Duckduckstop (talk) 18:19, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That obviously overlooked the Refimprove section in "Death and legacy"; having such tags in articles at the time of nomination is an automatic fail per WP:WIAGA. The "Ancestry" and "Descendants" section are also completely unreferenced. Big problem there. It would be nice to have this be a GA someday, but it's too soon now and needs more referencing. I've reverted the nomination for now. It is at best a C-class article at the moment, and would need to have at least one in-text citation per paragraph supporting article content to even be a B-class article. Snuggums (talk / edits) 18:39, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Frank Armstrong Crawford Vanderbilt
Even though she had a very untypical name for a woman, she was! Please correct the pronoun on the Vanderbilt overview (right side) accordingly! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.23.93.62 (talk) 13:38, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * There's nothing wrong with the pronoun. It indicates that their marriage ended with his, Cornelius', death, not hers, Frank's. He died before she did, so the marriage ended with his death. It has nothing to do with her name, and none of us are confused about what her gender was. Esrever (klaT) 14:03, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This is not the first reader who has mentioned they are confused by our presentation. I think using names rather than pronouns will avoid this. - Nunh-huh 19:15, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Works for me. Esrever (klaT) 20:19, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Robber baron
Robber baron and thief, exploiter and profiteer. Conveniently omitted from the article. Has the spirit of this man paid the editors to delete such passages?

Religion categories
I've removed the religion categories per
 * WP:CATGRS: The "defining" principle applies to gendered/ethnic/sexuality/disability/religion-based categorization as to any other, i.e.: A central concept used in categorising articles is that of the defining characteristics of a subject of the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define the subject as having—such as nationality or notable profession (in the case of people), type of location or region (in the case of places), etc.
 * WP:NONDEF: Categorization by non-defining characteristics should be avoided. It is sometimes difficult to know whether or not a particular characteristic is "defining" for any given topic, and there is no one definition that can apply to all situations. However, the following suggestions or rules-of-thumb may be helpful:
 * → a defining characteristic is one that reliable, secondary sources commonly and consistently define, in prose, the subject as having. For example: "Subject is an adjective noun ..." or "Subject, an adjective noun, ...". If such examples are common, each of adjective and noun may be deemed to be "defining" for subject.
 * → if the characteristic would not be appropriate to mention in the lead portion of an article, it is probably not defining;
 * → if the characteristic falls within any of the forms of overcategorization mentioned on this page, it is probably not defining.

It can be verified that the subject was a Christian, with the Moravian church, but that is not why he is famous, and is not a defining characteristic. Xenophrenic (talk) 21:36, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Xenophrenic, the article actually emphasizes his Moravian faith several times, mentioning that he retained his Moravian faith while other family members became Episcopalian and also that he donated a significant portion of funds to develop a Moravian graveyard. I noticed that you changed the description of the category in order to justify your censorship (though you were wrong on both counts). Please revert yourself or I will do it for you. Thanks.--Jobas (talk) 22:57, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
 * "Emphasizes his Moravian faith several times" is a stretch; I find only one mention of his faith, possibly two if counting his donation to the Church. The other three instances "Moravian" is mentioned simply refers to his burial site. I don't deny that he was Moravian, but it isn't a key defining trait that Vanderbilt was prominently noted for. Snuggums (talk / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 23:51, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2017
The first paragraph of the introduction currently reads, in part: "he used perseverance, ruthless exploitation of the working class, cunning and luck to acquire monopoly power positions in the inland water trade and the railroad industry. He is best known for owning the"

That run of text should be reverted to a prior version, which lacks the negatively-charged language, thus: "he used perseverance, intelligence and luck to work into leadership positions in the inland water trade, and invest in the rapidly growing railroad industry. He is best known for building the" Mrhota (talk) 04:17, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ thank you for pointing out such bias. <b style="color:#454545">Snuggums</b> (<b style="color:#454545">talk</b> / <b style="color:#454545">edits</b>) 04:32, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on August 27, 2017
Under "Descendants", please change "Cornelius Jeremiah Vanderbilt, an epileptic, died childless and committed suicide in 1882" to "Cornelius Jeremiah Vanderbilt, an epileptic, committed suicide and died childless in 1882".Clamdigger7 (talk) 15:24, 27 August 2017 (UTC)


 * Changed to "...died childless after committing suicide in 1882." ++Arx Fortis (talk) 15:32, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2018
The second sentence of the introduction contains subjective language. Past revisions of this sentence have gone back and forth between attributing Vanderbilt's success to traits with positive or negative connotations, but neither is necessary.

Simply removing the clause attributing his success to "perseverance, intelligence and luck" solves the problem. The rephrased sentence would then be: "Born poor and having only a mediocre education, Vanderbilt worked his way into leadership positions in the inland water trade and invested in the rapidly growing railroad industry." Officeromance (talk) 04:13, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done &mdash; KuyaBriBri Talk 14:09, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Overly positive take on Vanderbilt?
The header focuses on Vanderbilt as a philanthropist, and though he did donate money over the course of his life, I don't think that most consider him to be particularly known for his generosity. Could we focus more on historically pertinent aspects of his life? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yitzilitt (talk • contribs) 02:28, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Long time since you made this comment, but it appears to be resolved now. Only one sentence about his gift the university that bears his name. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 19:58, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Clarification of Descendants section
Please consider the following edits. As of 6/17/2019 Gloria Vanderbilt is no longer living. Also, Gloria Vanderbilt is not Cornelius Vanderbilt's great-great-granddaughter. Rather, she is his great-granddaughter. Gloria Vanderbilt's father is Reginald Claypoole Vanderbilt, therefore her grandfather is Cornelius Vanderbilt II, which would make the subject of this article (Cornelius Vanderbilt) her great-grandfather. Thank you for your consideration of these edits! Mabrn10 (talk) 16:03, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually, the Commodore here was indeed her great-great-grandfather when his eldest son William was the father of Cornelius II, paternal grandfather of Reginald, and patrilineal great-grandfather of Gloria. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 19:22, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Just as reassurance that more than one person has checked, the subject of this article, Cornelius Vanderbilt (1794-1877) is indeed the great-great-grandfather of Gloria Vanderbilt. Here's the descent in tabular form:

1 Cornelius Vanderbilt (1794-1877) & Sophia Johnson (1795-1868) (GG-grandparents) 2 William Henry Vanderbilt (1821-1885) & Maria Louisa Kissam (1821-1896) (G-grandparents) 3 Cornelius Vanderbilt II (1843-1899) & Alice Claypoole Gwynne (1845-1934) (grandparents) 4 Reginald Claypoole Vanderbilt (1880-1925) & Gloria Laura Mercedes Morgan (1905-1965) (parents) 5 Gloria Morgan Vanderbilt (1924-2019) - Nunh-huh 19:57, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 January 2020
Please change the "Ancestry" section to state that Jan Aertson was the great-great-great-grandfather, rather than the great-great-grandfather, of Cornelius Vanderbilt.

This is stated as such in the "History" section of the Vanderbilt family, and can be separately confirmed via the New Netherland Institute. Agrobbin (talk) 03:11, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:56, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Not needed
The sentence “They processed cotton from the Deep South, so were directly tied to the slave societies.” in steamboat entrepreneur should be removed. As the whole paragraph mentions nothing of railroads to the south. The section is about Vanderbilt’s steamboat entrepreneurship. Mentioning new mills being built as a cause for expanded business is needed. Where the U.S textile mills got Cotton or that they were connected to slave societies is not.

“ During the 1830s, textile mills were built in large numbers in New England as the United States developed its manufacturing base. They processed cotton from the Deep South, so were directly tied to the slave societies. Some of the first railroads in the United States were built from Boston to Long Island Sound, to connect with steamboats that ran to New York.” OriginalIPMG (talk) 09:52, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree and have removed it. Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 19:56, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I have a question. Someone on Quora is saying that Cornelius owned several plantations. Does anyone know if that is true? Or could he have purchased plantations after the war possibly? Zachygirl (talk) 04:01, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2020:
Reference 2 makes no mention of Vanderbilt's father or first wife and should not be associated with them. Js3419 (talk) 12:00, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Reference 2 is used three times, in A, B, and C. Please tell me which one you are talking about, as i dont see it used in relation to wives, etc. Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 19:55, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2021
Re: Sophia (Johnson) Vanderbilt, wife of Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt. She was the daughter of Nathaniel Johnson and his wife Elizabeth Simonson. The “Hand” maiden name was my mistake in an article written for the New York Genealogical & Biographical “Record”, July 1976 issue. Further research by me revealed her correct maiden name, Simonson, that was later published in the NYGBS “Record”. Please correct. Thank you. Charlotte Hix FGBS 108.46.210.91 (talk) 14:39, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Not sure whether you have any links for this issue, but I boldly decided to remove Sophia's parents altogether when it didn't seem to be particularly relevant to the page. They'd be better for an article on her (assuming she ever warranted one). <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 15:11, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 September 2021
Please add the category Category:Burials at the Vanderbilt Mausoleum (Moravian Cemetery). 2601:241:300:B610:B9FA:FD79:C94:DDF1 (talk) 14:45, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ ✨ <span style="font-family:'Roboto',sans-serif;font-weight:300;text-shadow: 2px 2px 10px black;color:black;">Ed  talk!  ✨ 02:10, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request - update current dollar amounts to 2024
The last time amounts were adjusted for inflation in "today's dollars" was 2022. Suggest updated to current 2024 figures. Sergeant Curious (talk) 20:09, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Two Commodores
There is reference to him as being called the Commodore as a youth in jest in the early years section, and there is a second reference to him being called Commodore at the end of the steamboat section. Which is correct? 192.189.36.82 (talk) 18:22, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Both instances refer to this man. <b style="color:#009900">SNUGGUMS</b> (<b style="color:#009900">talk</b> / <b style="color:#009900">edits</b>) 21:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)