Talk:Cornell University Glee Club

List of Alumni
The list of alums seems pretty excessive to me, particularly since so few of them are truly notable —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.198.239.111 (talk • contribs) 18:26, 28 April 2006
 * Heading and signature added. &mdash;Notyourbroom ( talk ) 17:26, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

citations?
I just did a big edit at the Harvard Glee Club page, mostly to bring the article up to wikipedia standards involving citing sources. I notice that sources seem to be an issue for this article. I won't be a WP:DICK and put a tag at the top, but if someone has some time, it might be nice to dig up sources for some of the more obscure claims on this page.--Dmz5 06:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm referring mostly to the "acheivements" section, by the way--Dmz5 06:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I couldn't resist taking down the last three bits of the section - I'm pretty sure those are not verifiable claims - but sources surely exist for all the other stuff?--Dmz5 08:23, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Edits
So, it seems that this article isn't particularly closely maintained, so I figured I would just be bold and make some changes. I cut down the enormous list of alums (most of whom were not notable) and added the fact tag to the acheivements section, also deleted random "poem" that mentions the glee club. I am tempted to also whittle down the list of Cornell songs and premiers by the group to things by notable composers, but that might be a little much for now. It would be great if all these college singing articles could eventually be made to be "good articles" by wikipedia standards and not just repositories for promotional material and unsourced historical claims.--Dmz5 21:44, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Changed my mind about the song premieres and cut a few out--Dmz5 21:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Cornell Sherwoods
Please merge any relevant content from Cornell Sherwoods, per Articles for deletion/Cornell Sherwoods. —Quarl (talk) 2006-12-27 06:01Z 

Cornell Songs
No one has really come forward to suggest how to improve the big list of Cornell Songs. I am considering spinning it off into a new article, especially as it doesn't particularly relate to the Glee Club just because they still sing some of them.- Dmz5 *Edits**Talk* 01:26, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Content merged in
&mdash;Bill Price (nyb) 03:42, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

&mdash;Bill Price (nyb) 15:38, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

Dispute over the circumstances of the Waiters' dissociation from the Glee Club
To put this very briefly, there seem to be two "oral traditions" regarding the Waiters' dissociation from the Glee Club: One which asserts that the dissociation was acrimonious and caused irreconcilable "bad blood" between the organization, and one which holds that the Waiters' dissociation was actually quite cordial at the time that it occurred, but that later rivalry with subsequent subsets of the Glee Club like The Hangovers led to a largely one-sided revisioning of history in order to vilify the Waiters. During my time in the Glee Club, the first version of the oral history- the "bad blood" one- was pervasive, perhaps owing to the large influence The Hangovers had on the club in the first half of the 2000s. I originally wrote the section using what I knew and what I could draw and infer from Slon's book; has since brought to my attention the fact that this perspective is not unchallenged, and that Slon may not have gotten the Waiters' side of the story. I have no real personal investment in one view or the other, but it's clear that (1) a dispute exists and (2) we don't have the sources necessary to resolve it. I'm honestly not sure what to do in this case. &mdash;Bill Price (nyb) 20:41, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Reason for the removal
I have never affirmatively alleged that historical revisioning has occurred by The Hangovers or anyone else. After reading the article, I thought there might have been some revisioning by Slon, perhaps based on oral tradition. However, after obtaining and reading Slon's book, I noticed that much of this article, while citing Slon's book, contains information not present in this book; in other words, if there was revisioning, Slon didn't perpetuate it. To be clear, I am not asserting that the source material is in error; I am asserting that a portion of the information in this article does not appear in the source material at all. I removed what I believe to be the information not stated in Slon's book and retained that which was mentioned in the book. In particular,

"As more and more a cappella groups appeared on campus during this period, however, the Waiters began to feel outcompeted, torn as they were between two ensembles." Unmentioned by Slon. Slon does not claim that "more and more a cappella groups appeared on campus." For that matter, neither does the Cornellian, which lists only three small groups on campus during that time period. Slon does not state that Cayuga's Waiters felt outcompeted by the other two groups; he only states that one of these groups (The Cornellaires) once mentioned in the yearbook that they wanted to outperform Cayuga's Waiters, a VERY different assertion. Inasmuch as these other two groups were in existence only a few years while Cayuga's Waiters has endured to the present day, one could make a strong case that Cayuga's Waiters WEREN'T outcompeted by campus groups.

"The earliest Waiters had maintained good standing in the Glee Club, but with each successive entering class, this commitment faltered." Unmentioned by Slon. This is a pretty broad statement besides.

"A new wave of a cappella ensembles was providing ample competition for the Waiters, who had previously held an unchallenged dominant position in the fledgling community." The first half of this is mentioned by Slon in the context of small group singing at other universities. The "unchallenged dominant position" is unmentioned by Slon. Since this paragraph in the Wikipedia article was discussing Cayuga's Waiters' relationship to other groups at Cornell, this was irrelevant.

"However, the split between Cayuga's Waiters and the Glee Club was not a clean one,[2]:240 and the two organizations never reconciled." Unmentioned by Slon and vague language besides. (What is "reconciled"?)

"Popular lore holds that no young men have simultaneously held positions in both organizations at the same time since the split of 1958." Unmentioned by Slon, and it is lore, not fact, and, personally, I am aware that the lore is false.

I have not inserted "the other side of the story." I have merely removed the unsourced material.&mdash;Andy Poe 17:02, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

"First tour of England by a choral ensemble" removal
Some research shows that at least one group, in this case the Amherst College Glee Club, toured Europe before their 1895 claim. See here. Walkertron5000 (talk) 05:29, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Splitting Cayuga's Waiters into a separate article (again)
I have split off content related to Cayuga's Waiters into a separate article. It had been merged into the Glee Club's article (wrongly) in 2013, despite the groups having had completely independent (and active) existences since 1956. For more explanation, see the Talk page of the Cayuga's Waiters. Dss16 (talk) 23:43, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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