Talk:Coronation Street/Archive 1

Coronation of Edward VII in 1911?
The Coronation of Edward VII in 1911? After he'd just died? I think not! Deb 23:52 Feb 7, 2003 (UTC)

Opps. should read 1902. JTD 00:14 Feb 8, 2003 (UTC)

Much of the early history is left out
Much of the early history is left out. Ena and Elsie, the backbone of the story for many years, is hardly even mentioned. Julie Goodyear is most definitely not there, and what would Corrie be without Bet? TheCustomOfLife 03:35, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Soap?
The article says that Granada claims this is the longest running soap opera. When I worked there, admittedly a long time ago, the companyn always said that the Street was NOT a soap opera.
 * The producers are splitting hairs. Soap opera is a (slang, I guess) common term for on-going television serial with a story that could potentially go forever. And this is exactly what Coronation Street is. Drama serial might be a less slangy term for the same thing. I doesn't matter what the producers claim, the show fits the formula of what is commonly referred to as soap opera. Asa01 01:08, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Images
I now added screencaptures from my own collection to the article. Please tell me what you think either here or on my talk page; both are preferable. Mike H 17:27, Aug 8, 2004 (UTC)


 * I think they illustrate the article just great, but the aspect ratio seems to be out. Mintguy (T)


 * I know. I am not sure how to fix that. The aspect ratio for the material was widescreen. Mike H 04:04, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)


 * Widescreen is 16:9, these images are 720*480, which is 3:2. 16:9 == 48:21 and 3:2 == 48:32. So if you maintain the width and correct the height you should make the new height  480/32*21 = 315. (65% of the original) This is assuming that you did a full capture from the 16:9 source. Mintguy (T)


 * I am so not aware of what I did. I believe I used the "capture how it looks" option and not the correct dimensions. It was a couple of weeks ago...I think I did it this way so I wouldn't have to see black bars. Mike H 21:07, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)


 * Fixed. Lupin 16:18, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Lupin: When you "fixed the firefox bug" you made the images align horizontally where previously they were done vertically. I've changed the sectioning and positioning of the pictures entirely now and I hope they still look OK in firefox. violet/riga (t) 16:48, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Wait a minute, though...how come all these images are widescreen when the soap didn't go widescreen until (I think) 2002? BillyH 01:40, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)


 * It was a clip show in widescreen. Mike H 01:52, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

Transsexual
Just adding as a reference, before anyone changes that section...the way it is now (and, I'm assuming, Lupin made it so) is correct: Hayley was the first transsexual on a British soap. The first transsexual on American soaps was Azure C. on The City in 1996. Mike H 00:02, Aug 30, 2004 (UTC)

Ken Barlow
Shouldn't Ken be included in the list of long-running characters? After all, he is the longest ever. User:Chewyman


 * This is something that can be easily rectified by being bold. Mike H 20:05, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)

Tea lady
What's a tea lady? [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (talk)]] 01:33, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)


 * Someone who serves tea. Unless I'm horribly mistaken. Mike H 04:47, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)

Ratings
I can't seem to find much talk of ratings. I believe Eastenders and Coronation Street are the most viewed programmes in an average week, attracting 15 to 20 million viewers. I don't have any figures except for those from memory, but it would be good to see some included, as 20 million viewers in a country of 60 million does a good job of illustrating Coronation Street's significance. &mdash; Trilobite (Talk) 17:34, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

What?
For many years, CBC affiliate CBKST in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan was recognized by the Guinness Book of Records for buying the rights to air more than 2,000 episodes of the series.

I don't understand this sentence. It isn't phrased correctly or something. Mike H 18:52, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)


 * It refers to the "Most TV Episodes Sold" record which can be found in the 2002 edition of Guinness World Records. The numbers in the statement are wrong however, which I will change.--Lucky13pjn 02:41, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

Page too large
This page is 40 kb long. That's waaay over the 30 kb page size advocated by wikipedia. Please condense the matter. &#x00b6; &#x273;&#x209;&#x010d;&#x1e29;&#x00e5;&#x1e3d;&#x1e57; | [[User talk:nichalp| &#x2709; ]] 19:56, Oct 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * The only section to be taken out really would be the "Most controversial storylines" part. Storylines from Coronation Street is a possibility, but I think it's OK if it stays as it is (it's a featured article and doesn't need messing with).
 * I agree with Nichalp, it's gotten too long. Had it been this long when we voted on whether it should have been a FAC, there's a fair chance it would have been rejected on that basis. Nor do I agree that only one bit can be taken to a subpage - there are many more complicated subjects that can keep articles below 32kb. jguk 22:07, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * There is only one bit that I can see that could be taken out - the others are too short to make a real difference and too short to warrant articles. violet/riga (t) 22:17, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * It was this long during voting, actually. There was a complaint that not enough history was written, so I wrote as much as there is now. It passed through. So, no, it would not have been rejected because it wasn't rejected. Mike H 01:27, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * Aren't you pushy. Is there any special reason why you're ordering other people to condense the matter? Why aren't you helping? Mike H 01:26, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * Not sure if this is directed at Nichalp or me. But I'm not ordering, just advising. I've already helped by trimming down Adolf Hitler (which has already grown a bit larger and will need repruning soon) and September 11, 2001 attacks. It takes time to prune without removing info from Wikipedia, and there's only so much time anyone's going to put in to it. jguk 06:04, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * To clarify: this was not directed at you. :-) Mike H 11:27, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

October 2005
This page is getting very messy and far from the high standard it previously was. It is becoming a dumping ground for trivia (usually based on recent characters): it looks like an entire website squeezed into one page. I really think we could lose some sections: either by creating seperate articles, or losing them altogether. The 'Disasters on the Street' scetion is one long section I'd like out of the main article, somehow. The JPS 17:56, 4 October 2005 (UTC)


 * The villains section can also go. There should really be daughter articles based on history of the show, not unlike what's on As the World Turns. Mike H (Talking is hot) 18:10, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * For reference, this is what the article looked like on Oct 7 2004 - the day it was a Feature Article. The JPS 19:15, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I've moved the Criminals section to Talk:Coronation Street/Wrongdoers and criminals, rather than completely delete it. We might be able to salvage some of it. Yes, I see what you mean about the structure of As the World Turns. At least that way we can automatically move the infatuation with contemporary storylines and characters into the relevant daughter article, to keep the main article clean. The JPS 19:27, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

January 2006
The page is now 87Kb in size (nearly 3 times as long as it should be.)

Here are some of my suggestions for reducing it:


 * 1) In Characters and characterisations, move and reorganise all the text to List of characters from Coronation Street except for a short paragraph to say not much more than that there have been hundreds of characters and only Ken's been there since the beginning. Tony Slattery should also be added to notable guest stars, I expect.
 * 2) Humour: move to separate article at Humour in Coronation Street. Indeed some of this can just be moved to Fred's article.
 * 3) Major events on the Street: move to separate article at Coronation Street timeline (or similar.)
 * 4) Scheduling: move to separate article at Coronation Street scheduling (or similar.)

Any thoughts? If people are happy then I will do some of the work myself, although as I'm quite busy I can't promise to do all of it! Essexmutant 14:34, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * No responses in 2 weeks... may I presume that no one has any objections to me trimming the page down, as described above? Essexmutant 15:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Go ahead. This article needs to look better. Try to use the October 2004 version as a model. Mike H. That's hot 21:31, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Update - humour article now created (see link above). Essexmutant 23:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 2nd update - timeline article now created (see link above). Essexmutant 13:17, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Alf Roberts
I remember reading somewhere that the character of Alf Roberts was remodeled in later years to be reminiscient of the father of Margaret Thatcher, who was also a grocer named Alf Roberts. Can someone research this and tell me if it's true? Mike H 23:17, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)

er no. Alf Roberts was her father, only a different one altogether, resident in Grantham. Sjc 15:19, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Controversies with actors
Should we add a section dealing with controversies with the actors. From cocaine (bye bye Dev) to alcoholism (Norman Watts) to allegations of paedophilia (Len Fairclough), they've had them all. What do others reckon? jguk 23:36, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I think there is place for it, but perhaps not in the article in its current state. Perhaps they would best be in the individual actors' articles.  violet/riga (t) 23:41, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I've never heard these accusations before. I don't live in England so I don't read the tabloid papers there. Anyway, I don't see why not, but be sure to mention that Doris Speed, who played dear Annie Walker, lied about her age for years, and then when it was published, she publicly fainted, necessitating her departure from the programme. Another actress who lied about her age was Barbara Knox. Mike H 00:04, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

Hayley as a long-established character
The Street has had many long-established characters, and I don't think Hayley is one of them. When I think of long-established, I think at least before 1990, so that's why I thought the McDonalds would be a nice ending point for that criterion. Mike H 17:04, Feb 8, 2005 (UTC)

Emmerdale
I reverted the previous IP's edits; Corrie's ratings rival is no longer EastEnders...for the last year or so, it has been Emmerdale on ITV1. Until EastEnders reaches their old ratings highs, it should probably stay this way. Mike H 19:26, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

Request for references
Hi, I am working to encourage implementation of the goals of the Verifiability policy. Part of that is to make sure articles cite their sources. This is particularly important for featured articles, since they are a prominent part of Wikipedia. Further reading is not the same thing as proper references. Further reading could list works about the topic that were not ever consulted by the page authors. If some of the works listed in the further reading section were used to add or check material in the article, please list them in a references section instead. The Fact and Reference Check Project has more information. Thank you, and please leave me a message when you have added a few references to the article. - Taxman 16:33, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * A lot of these references come from the episodes themselves. Would you like us to cite episode numbers and such? Mike H 17:59, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)


 * Never mind; I've cited the television specials and books that have helped me in the process. Mike H 15:22, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

Corrie's rivalvry with the BBC
Hi,

I thought instead of editing it I would perhaps suggest what is wrong with this section.

It was in the mid to late 80's when EastEnders and Brookside came along that saw the major criticism being aimed at Coronation Street, not so much 1990's. Mainly for the reasons that you have given, both EastEnders and Brookside were seen as modern, fresh soaps that made Coronation Street look out of touch. It was also in the 80's when EastEnders first overtook Coronation Street in the ratings war. In the 90's that you speak of EastEnders did have perhaps some of the most memorable storylines on TV but things were pretty much even between both Coronation Street and EastEnders. If I remember correctly Coronation Street had modernised itself by the set extension such as new houses on the otherside. Whatever way as I see both of the soaps had there fair share of good storylines, EastEndes tended to attract higher audience figures at the peak of a storyline compared to Coronation Street.

By the late 90's EastEnders had taken a bit of a dull with the unpopular itallian Di Marco family, who were later axed. It wasn't until the appointment of the highly experienced producer Matthew Robinsion and then John Yorke's arrival that EastEnders dominated the ratings again. So to say "by the early 21st century" is incorrect. EastEnders was enjoying one of its most successful periods with peaks of over 20 million viewers, this was around 2000 - 2002 and saw EastEnders beat Coronation Street in the ratings for the first time.

During this 2000 - 2002 Coronation Street possibly faced its worst bad patch under the producer Jane McNaught, with storylines such as Toyah's rape, Alison and Kevin, Freshco's freezer death, Janice and Dennis and the 40th annivesary episode in which residents 'saved the cobbles'. At this time it was even hinted that Coronation Street would be axed.

Kieron Roberts took over as the producer and in late 2002 Coronation Street managed to turn the corner, particularly with the help of the long running Richard Hillman saga.

The title of the article is on the rivalvry with the BBC, yet an entire paragraph is dedicated to that of EastEnders, there is actually more information than there is of why Coronation Street became popular in 2002 - 2005 onwards or the type of storylines in the 80's. You even mention that a tabloid suggested EastEnders was within 48 hours of being dropped altogether (which, however is wrong, it was suggested they did not have enough scripts to keep the show going that it would need to be pulled for a short while) yet what does this have to do with Coronation Street? Coronation Street is not to blame for the downfall of EastEnders, it may be its rival but they do not go against each other competing - the downfall is due to those responsible for EastEnders. It is the type of talk which fuels such an on-going war between them driven by the public tabloids.

You then go to mention that Emmerdale is now the rival (again incorrect, look at the latest figures - you will see EastEnders is right behind Coronation Street) but what does this has to do with the rivalry of the BBC? You then talk about EastEnders and Emmerdale going head to head (which actually wasn't unthinkable a decade ago, Emmerdale had often been in the hourly slot attracting similar viewers to that of EastEnders) but again nothing to do with Corrie's rivalvy with the BBC.

There is little talk of an ACTUAL rivalvry with the BBC but rather just 'ITV Soaps rivalvry with the BBC', which is also rather one sided. Why not do some research about how the BBC put Doctor Who against Coronation Street - using it as an excuse to kill the programme off? Or when flagship show - Top Of the Pops - was moved against Corrie? Or what BBC1 has in its schedule against Coronation Street?

I really cannot see how the section itself is justified, the BBC itself is a public organisation - it doesn't set out to rival Corrie, when you mention the BBC - you speak for it as a whole, its radio stations and all of its television channels.

I will await your response but I think the section really needs re-working or just made part of another section.

--EastEnders the great 18:29, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Category for Coronation Street actors?

 * Does anyone else think a good idea would be rather to have a list of all cast members in the Coronation Street cast page (linked in this page), that a 'Category:Coronation Street actors' could be made similar to the one for EastEnders, so that pages for the actors could have that category included? Also I've recently created pages for Corrie cast members Maggie Jones, Sue Cleaver, Debra Stephenson, Margi Clarke, Sue Jenkins, Jane Danson and Patricia Cutts if anyone wants to have a look and add anything extra they know. Well done to everyone here for making this one of the featured articles. -- Candice 00:47, 25th August 2005 (UTC)
 * I made the category Trampikey 09:38, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Martin adopting Nick
Did Martin really adopt Nick? I remember that there was some stipulation Ivy put on Gail...something involving Nick not being allowed in her will if he changed his last name from Tilsley. Mike H (Talking is hot) 20:53, August 26, 2005 (UTC)
 * Martin did adopt Nick, but he changed his name back to Tilsley in order to benefit from Ivy's will. Trampikey 09:38, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Disasters on the Street
In 1971, Valerie Barlow was electrocuted in her home.

Was she electrocuted by a faulty hair dryer plugged into an overloaded socket?


 * Faulty hairdryer. I don't think it was overloaded. The hairdryer was just faulty. IIRC, Valerie knew the hairdryer had problems and tried to use it anyway. Mike H (Talking is hot) 19:58, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Please provide more detail on the disasters.

For example: "On February 12, 1993, Lisa Duckworth was hit and killed by a car." Do we know who the driver was?

"Ernie Bishop was shot in a failed wages robbery on January 11, 1978." Where did this take place? Again, we need to provide more details, if possible.


 * Ernie Bishop was working for Mike Baldwin, and was shot in an office at Baldwin's factory. Mike H (Talking is hot) 19:55, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Tracey Barlow
I just wanted to point out Tracey Barlow was first seen in 1978 and has been seen ever since with only a seven yaer break (1997 to 2003, I think). So why isnt she on the long established charecters list? Febuary 16, 2006

Screen captures
I managed to do some screen captures of material just released on Region 1 DVD, and I've added them to the article (Rovers set in 1970, Elsie's marriage to Alan). Mike H (Talking is hot) 17:17, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I Want To Break Free?
Should the Queen music video I Want To Break Free be mentioned, it does have a link in it to here... Billvoltage

Mr. Wong Redirect??
Does anybody know why the article "Mr_Wong" redirects here? Ckamaeleon ((T)) 23:38, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Because "Mr Wong" isn't notable enough to merit his own article? Mike H. That's hot 00:35, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Is he a character in Coronation Street? (I really don't know...I'm not familiar with the series). Seems like a name like that would merit a disambig page @ the very least. I wondered if perhaps it wasn't just random weirdness/vandalism..but now I see that you set up the redir. Anyway, I was looking for another article (on the controversial Mr. Wong flash cartoons) when I was redirected here and I didn't see any mention of a Mr. Wong in the Coronation St. Article (though I didn't really read carefully). If you're going to redirect directly to this article it seems like you should mention him in the target article. Thanks for responding so quickly, though. Ckamaeleon ((T)) 04:04, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * You can create your own redirect by clicking on the little Mr Wong link you see at the top when you're redirected to the Coronation Street article. From there, you will see the raw redirect and you can edit a new page from there. Ask me again if you need any more help. Ta! Mike H. That's hot 04:07, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I know how to do a redir... I just wanted to ask before doing it. As I understand, you're suggesting that I just change the redirect...or shall I create disambig page? Ckamaeleon ((T)) 05:30, 16 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I would do that, or just create a new article about the flash videos. Mr Wong as a Coronation Street character fails notability to get an article completely on its own. Mike H. That's hot 06:22, 16 March 2006

(UTC)

Stupid nicknames
I have never in my life heard anybody refer to Coronation Street as either 'Coro St', 'Corra', 'CS' or 'Corruption Street'. This section is absolute nonsense.

In Australasia (New Zealand) especially, "Coro St" is widely used as a nickname for the programme. John Thompson 23:39, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I've heard "Corra" used on message boards, but that's just a rough variant on "Corrie" and is probably redundant. I do need to see a citation for "Corruption Street." Mike H. That's hot 04:02, 18 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I've heard "Coro St" as well - I will add this back to the article (see second comment). LBM 18:07, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Criticism Section
I'm sorry but this lately added section of the article is completely ridiculous. The first three paragraphs have a string of grammatical errors such as to be barely comprehensible and the fourth paragraph is total forum hearsay.

Portion of a sentence
"and, according to the people who make it" &mdash; what does that mean? Could we get a copy-editor in here? This is from the very first sentence, which should be perfect. &mdash;Eternal Equinox | talk 17:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The line seems very odd. I have removed it for now. LBM 17:57, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Salverland
Why cant my imaginary nation of Salverland be on this page.
 * Wikipedia is a collection of facts, rather than imagination. -- zzuuzz (talk) 22:37, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Thats true. This ius an encyclopedia about fact not imagination. matt wilson 02:02, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

some guy is deleting my work.putting his own. It is rather annoying, and he seems to be ignoring me. I do not want to be accused of vandalism but can some warn him about deleting other peoples work without asking--Mechanismtongs 16:14, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Coronation Street VHS and DVD releases
I've plit th esection about video and DVD releases into a separate article (Coronation Street VHS and DVD releases) and have expanded it. Does anyone have the Network DVDs? If you do, the episodes need completing. The JPS talk to me  15:34, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Big Edit
I feel that the Coronation Street page on Wikipedia needs a massive overhaul as it now seems to have become a dumping ground for irrelevant information.

I am in no way a Wikipedia Expert and I sincerely hope that my edits haven't upset others. My main changes and additions are as follows;

I have split the existing discussion of Coronation Street's physical history and its sets into two sections -
 * "Weatherfield life - the changing face of Coronation Street"
 * "Coronation Street - the sets"

The information contained in these sections remains very much the same, with slight elaborations and expansions in parts. I have removed a lot of areas where points were repeated. I believe that the sections allow the article to flow more coherently from one to another, also with better distinction between "fact" and "fiction".

I have cut down the "Long Established Characters" section to include only Character Name, Actor Name and Date of first appearance. The section was quite frankly filled with too much information. The Wikipedia pages for each character are more than substantial.

I uploaded some photographs of the sets which have now been listed for deletion. Any help with correct copyright tagging would be massively appreciated as I think that they make the page. Ben 17:51, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Concise and Comprehensive history of Coronation Street
Further to my initial edits, I would like views on further development of the page.

I would propose 5 sections to briefly cover each decade, hopefully being kept to around 250 words for size-purposes.

I would keep the "1960s kitchen-sink drama" section relatively unchanged, with removal of certain pieces of information which could be deemed to be irrelevant to the "bigger picture".

I would also consider revision of character lists, guest appearances and trivia sections. This page is undoubtedly a hugely popular port-of-call for the Internet community to find information about Coronation Street, but I don't think that at the moment this article does the reader, Wikipedia or Coronation Street any justice.

Ben 18:02, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Or follow the structure of As the World Turns because of size and management. The JPS talk to me  18:04, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Reverted edits
Reverted all edits prior to anything I had done. Waste of my time. Ben 17:17, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Why? You were beginning to make some good contributions. The JPS talk to me  00:42, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Verifiability
I'm all for verifiability. But it seems a little ridiculous to ask for verification of whether the Prince of Wales is a fan of the programme when it is an easily documented fact that he has appeared on it in a walk-on role. Must we really find a press quotation citing his enjoyment of the show? HRH can do pretty much as he wishes; it is unlikely that he would take the time to appear on a television programme which he despised. Rlquall 13:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If there's an obvious source - Google leads to for example, then there's no reason not to include it. Essexmutant 16:42, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

In the businesses section:
Shouldn't Kevin's garage be included as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.134.41 (talk • contribs)