Talk:Coronation Street/Archive 2

Citations and featured article
This article needs rewriting. The main priority, as I see it, is to use inline citations. Other criticisms levied when it was removed from FA status was that it is fragmented, with a lot of lists. For reference, this is what the article looked like on Oct 7 2004 - the day it was a Feature Article on the main page.

I've begun to add inline citations. They are important for high traffic article so we can keep a track of proper real information, and lose the rubbish. The JPS talk to me  18:42, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Could we suggest reverting to the version that was featured? Ben 05:14, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I see your thinking, but one of the problems is that the standard for FA has risen considerably since this was given that status. There is no way that October 2004 version would be promoted to FA today. The JPS talk to me  21:48, 23 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I wasn't necessarily meaning that it would become a featured article again, more a point of the featured version being more concise and 'readable' - especially the introduction. Ben 21:59, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see. Well the lead should summarise the rest of the article. The 2004 is perhaps too concise, but the current one probably needs work with sentence structure... The JPS talk to me  22:03, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Episodes in colour and black-and-white
Sounds interesting: '''(with colour and black-and-white being used interchangeably between 1969 and 1971). '''

Seems like a long changeover period. How frequent was the swapping between colour and black-and-white? Or was it due to colour technicians strike or something? Format 04:13, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


 * No technicians' strike. From what I have read, they just used it when they felt like it. For some episodes, when they wanted to show outdoor scenery (such as the registry office wedding of Elsie and Alan), they would use color, but if an episode required indoor sets, they would not tape in color (probably for cost reasons back then). Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 20:02, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I dont like to object, but the reson the series taped in black and white from late 1970 until Spring 1971 was due to a techians strike. This strike affected other shows as well. Upstairs Downstairs had to film in black and white for much of its First Series for that reason. No disrespect, but reaserch your facts before adding them to Wikipedia. H.J. Bellamy 17:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification, but perhaps the tone of the final sentence is unnecessary. Anyway, do you have an reference for your claim? We can then add it to the article in an attempt to get this up to GA status. The JPS talk to me  17:35, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes the reason I asked was because I knew that the first season of Upstairs Downstairs went to B&W due to a strike but didn't know if Coronation Street was also affected. The article's claim that "colour and black-and-white being used interchangeably between 1969 and 1971" seems to suggest almost a casual swapping back and forth, which somehow I doubt. Format 19:35, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I doubt that as well. I dont think a show would do that. But yes it was a late 1970 and early 1971 strike which caused production to go back to black and white I am currently looking for a proper source to link that to. H.J. Bellamy 20:28, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Also I didnt mean that last sentance in a mean way. I just meant facts should be known to be true before being placed on Wikipedia. The quality is better that way. H.J. Bellamy 20:29, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

All right I just confirmed it. A friend of mine in Manchester who used to work for Granada has confirmed that IT WAS A TECHNIANS STRIKE in late 1970 and Coronation Street was forced to film in black and white until the Spring of 1971 when color became avalible again. No disrecept to any one but it is always best to confirm something before adding it to Wikipedia. H.J. Bellamy 18:25, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree very much with your sentiments about researching things. However, I'm not really sure that we're much better off in terms of verifiability. The problem with this source is that no one else can verify it. I am not for one second doubting your honesty or your friend's knowledge, but can you imagine what could be added to the project if we accept "my friend told me" as a source?! A print or online source would be excellent: i.e. something to which others have access. The JPS talk to me  19:43, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I am currently lookeing for a proper source. H.J. Bellamy 18:18, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Weatherfield
I was thinking that a seperate article about the town of Weatherfield should be written. All other soaps have article on their fictinal settings, so Corries setting should have an article to. H.J. Bellamy 02:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Well what does anyone think? If someone else starts the article, I can contribute much to it. So share your opinion? H.J. Bellamy 18:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

One thing that irritates me to death is ignoring my message. What does anyone think about a Weatherfield article? Answer if you care about Wikipedia.


 * Be bold; start an article on Weatherfield if you want, I'm sure it will be greatly contributed to. -- LBM  | TALK TO ME  00:01, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

All right I have started the article so please help me expand, fellow Corrie fans. H.J. Bellamy 20:17, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I've redirected your article ('Weatherfield') to Weatherfield, without the apostrophes. Perhaps you (and others) could expand on the existing article. -- LBM  | TALK TO ME  22:08, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Imaginary Nation
I was just wandering. In my imaginary country Salverland I pretend Corrie airs there five days a week on my main TV station SBC at 7:00 pm on weekday evenings. I know it is my imagination but could I still add this to the article. 75.109.101.139 05:30, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Please don't. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not for stuff you made up. There are hundreds of free web hosting site where you can post whatever you like. Please don't vandalize Wikipedia by adding clearly fake information to articles. If you continue you will be blocked from editing at all. Thanks, Gwernol 01:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia was not designed for imagination. It was designed for reality and fact. It is absoultly silly to add false stuff to this website. H.J. Bellamy 02:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Characters and characterisations
This part of the article serves as little more than a biography for Ken Barlow. I may suggest scrapping most of this lengthy section and focussing on how the programme helped create certain 'soap' archetypes. Ken would undoubtedly feature as the show's first 'young radical', but of equal importance are characters like Elsie, Ena, Annie & Hilda. Ben 00:57, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I have started to edit bits & bobs, generally tidying up. Most of the trivia section has been incorporated into the article (if applicable) or simply scrapped in line with Wikipedia's views on trivia sections.  I have cut-down the section on sets as much as I can, as an individual article now exists.  Further cutdowns of this section could be done as some information is repeated elsewhere.  Things that still need to be done:
 * The lead needs lengthening and to fill its role as a lead needs to summarise the article. I am not sure what else can be added, probably most usful would be information on Coronation Street being broadcast abroad. It may also be useful to include how the programme has spanned five decades and chartered social changes in Brtain for things I have sources on (decimalisation of money, changes in pensions, technological advances).  I would really like input on anything else that may be useful for the lead. done.
 * Background to Coronation Street has been slightly edited, with information about black & white and colour broadcasting being added - but I'm not sure if it's the right place. Again, I would like some input and suggestions on this section because I am just not sure what "background" is relevant. At the moment the four short paragraphs cover topics ranging from storylines & characters to the geography of the street. done.
 * 1960s kitchen-sink drama needs citations and perhaps a small overhaul so that it actually refers to critique and praise which the programme received during the 1960s. It is important to note that even as early as 1964 Coronation Street was seen as old-fashioned because it showed life from the 1950s as opposed to the now-swinging 1960s. done.
 * Characters and characterisations has had the biggest overhaul. I've removed what was a lengthy biography for Ken Barlow and replaced information about the four Coronation Street characters from the early days of the programme (Elsie, Ena, Annie & Hilda).  I have also included information about Bet Lynch.  I would like to add further on how these five roles have gone on to act as archetypes for other Coronation Street characters.  There is a risk of writing too much in this section, but also too little.  It would be useful to add information about the criticism the programme received in the 1990s when it was reported that the average age of its cast was 60 (or something like that) and how this led to the arrival of Brian Park in 1997, the axing of old characters in favour of younger ones and ultimately the alienation of many viewers.  I am scared about writing too much, when more could be added to the list of characters section. done.
 * Production staff would benefit from the addition of information about Adele Rose (the street's most prolific writer and longest-serving writer) who wrote 455 episodes and went on to create Byker Grove. Daran Little is also worthy of note since he went from archivist & historian to writer and then on to create Hollyoaks: In The City.
 * Scheduling seems OK after I gave it a small overhaul to make it talk about schedules rather than ratings. done.
 * Measures of popularity was created from information formerly in Scheduling and needs a lot of work. I have sources for ratings in the 1960s, but very little for the 1970s.  I've got bits for the 80s but again little for the 90s and 2000s. Help would be appreciated. incorporated into prose.
 * Famous fans and appearances - yes, I got rid of it. The list of famous fans was unverifiable, with most claims being based on hearsay.  I would like to reform the "appearances and cameos" with a properly referenced section.

Right, that's a lot to be getting on with! I am really hoping that others out there will be interested in helping me out...especially with citations and references for the programme from 2000-2006. Ben 21:21, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Huge Question
The following is in the article William Roache...

''A famous instance of sex was between William Roache and his Coronation Street co-star Anne Kirkbridge. The two were playing a married couple, Ken and Deirdre Barlow on the ITV soap when they fell in love on the set. They were caught numerous times engaging in sex in the dressing room. Johnny Bridges, who memorably played Mike Baldwin once said he knew the sex must be good or they wouldnt do it so much. The sex ended in 1986 when Kirkbridge sprained her hip when the couple rolled off the desk while having an orgasm. This was untalked about until William Roache mentioned it during a 2003 interview.''

I have never heard this anywhere and I was wandering if any one could me. Can anyone confirm or disprove this? Or this this just well written vandalism? American Brit 06:39, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Well-written vandalism. I can't believe you'd even consider it to be truth! Ben 14:33, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

I didnt beleive it. I just wanted to see if it could be verified. American Brit 02:17, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Uh I added that myself. It is true. I remember when William Roache mentioned it in 2003 during an interview on an ITV talk show. It is now a well repeated story. Even articles in newspapers mention it frequently. William Roache and Anne Kirkbridge were lovers during the late 1980's. Transmexico 03:36, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It may have been believable if you knew that the name is KIRKBRIDE, not Kirkbridge...oh and it's Johnny Briggs...not Bridges... Ben 03:47, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

It was not well written vandalism. It was a true fact. I am not a liar. Transmexico 03:57, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The growing vandalism warnings on your talk page means that we are not incredibly willing to believe you. The JPS talk to me  12:56, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Broadcast Format
I have cleaned up, copyedited and included citations which were previously lost. I have put citation tags on sentences without references - could whoever added the information please include a citation or reference? Ben 20:57, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Turn Out The Lights
I added this sitcom to the section titled "Spin Offs" due it being a sequel to a real spin off. But it did not link to the page Turn Out The Lights. I know there is one because I started the page. Could someone please link the pages. American Brit 16:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Already done :-) Ben 16:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I meant there is a Wikipedia article about Turn Out The Lights, that I started about two weeks ago. It is linked to the page Pardon the Expression. But it is not linked to Coronation Street. American Brit 17:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Please remember NOT to copy and paste from other sites. Pardon The Expression was a direct copy and paste from the BBC. This should NEVER be done, and ALWAYS cite your sources. Thanks. The JPS talk to me  18:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Turn Out The lights was also a copyright violation from . The reason why you couldn't find it again was because you used a lower case 'l' in the title. The JPS talk to me  18:41, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Survial Of Episodes
My source for the following....

Coronation Street'' is a rarity among British television shows from the 1960s and 1970s, as all of its episodes survive in the Granada Film Library archives. Most 1960s episodes exist only on 16mm film telerecordings, as the videotaped copies were wiped and tapes reused, yet some early episodes are believed to be damaged or in poor quality. Audios of all the damaged tapes do survive however.''

comes from right here on Wikipedia. It is on the page Wiping. —Preceding unsigned comment added by American Brit (talk • contribs) 00:57, 7 January 2007
 * Sorry, per Reliable sources, we are unable to self-reference. Sources must be verifiable and outside of Wikipedia. The JPS talk to me  01:04, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the removal. I knew that we weren't able to accept Wikipedia as a source...I just wasn't bold enough to say... Ben

)Is the statement true. Does all of Corries episodes in fact survive? Apparently Granada did not wipe their films and videotapes like the rest of ITV and BBC did. Enough episodes have survived for the recent DVD release. CorrieEnders 14:29, 31 January 2007 (UTC

Maggie Jones - 87?
I read on Maggie Jones wikipedia page that she is 87? I know imdb backs this up, but 87 would be a bit older than I would have thought?
 * The character of Blanche Hunt will be 71 this year, however I am assuming that Maggie Jones is a bit older - but 20 years? She looks good on it if she is approaching 90! Ben 04:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

2000-present
OK I wrote a big thing but my browser played up and now it's gone. Basically I think that we need to discuss what is a 'noteworthy' storyline. With the storyline turnover now higher in all British soaps, there have arguably been hundreds of storylines since 2000, but in my opinion not all of them are really worth mentioning in this main article. Another article was created (see : Major storylines of Coronation Street) where more extensive storyline information can be added for further reference. I think that the only story that has been all that big so far this decade was the Hillman murders. Things like 'Killer Katy' should also be included, but is Sally Webster's affair that vital? The comparison between the decades is important, and can we really compare things like Alan Bradley being killed by a tram (a defining storyline of Coronation Street), the Ken/Deirdre/Mike triangle or even the 1967 train crash to Craig Harris & Rosie Webster sleeping together? If you think otherwise, please give me your feedback. Ben 00:30, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Corrie In The U.A.E.
The folowing was added by an anonyomous editor...

In the U.A.E, episodes of Coronation Street are aired two and a half weeks after the U.K

Could someone provide a source?. Stralia 02:56, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a link to a website saying it began broadcasting on 4th June 2005 with the episode that was shown in the UK on 16th May 2005 -

http://business.maktoob.com/advertising_medianew.asp?id=20050526172723

Candice 03:57, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Techians Strike
The part about Coronation Street being in black and white from October 1970 to Febuary 1971 is true as there was a strike in a film developing company. Many ITV shows were affected, including Upstairs Downstairs (Episodes 1-6 of it were videotaped in black and white as a result). Still I think someone needs to add a citation as I am anti-unsourced statements, even for stuff I know is true. Edge865 &#91;&#91;Proud To Be A Wikipedian]] 20:24, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This has been rattling on for quite a while now, and still no source has been found. The section has been removed and readded numerous times, but there either seems to be little effort on the part of those readding it to find a source. I have looked at all of my print sources and other various electronic sources and I can find nothing. If you could help in any way, that would be great. Ben 01:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Judging my your edits, Benc you seem to know an awful lot about Coronation Street. Do have any idead about why the show was in black and white for four months? As I stated the strike did happen, as Upstairs Downstairs was notably affected. Other ITV shows were as well they all went back to black and white duriing a time colour was the norm. It seems funny doesnt it that if Coronation Street was not affected by that strike, they switched back to BW while it was going on. Too much of a considence. Edge865 &#91;&#91;Wikipedian Through And Through]] 04:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I have taken this as the most plausible explanation for the revert to black and white. However, Coronation Street, moreover Granada, had problems with their colour filming equipment.  The first episode that was planned to be filmed in colour was envisaged as a masterpiece; the entire cast went to the Lake District, and the plan was to show the Lakes in all of its autumnal glory in beautiful colour. The end of the episode saw the coach the residents were travelling in crash.  Unfortunately, all of the colour cameras malfunctioned and Granada was stuck with black and white. Although this proves that Granada had certain problems with its colour stock, I can't see it being the reason for a revert to black and white almost a year later.Ben 05:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Upstairs Downstairs did record much of its first season in black and white due to a techians strike. This strike occured at the same time Coronation Street reverted back to black and white in late 1970. As for what Mike Halterman said about using black and white and colour interchangebly is totally false. No TV series would swap back and forth. In all probability the strike was the reason the show went to black and white for a few months. Golden User (Gold Hearted) 03:34, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * We've already established this really, what we are looking for is a reliable source to back it up. Any ideas? Ben 09:24, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

1960s kitchen-sink drama
"The serial began on December 9, 1960, and was not initially a critical success. Granada commissioned only 13 episodes and some inside the company doubted the show would last its planned production run. However it caught the imagination of viewers, not least because of its location in the North of England, which was becoming a highly fashionable and visible centre of 1960s Britain, thanks in part to classics of British new wave cinema such as Billy Liar and Saturday Night and Sunday Morning, the 'kitchen-sink' dramas of the BBC's The Wednesday Play and the rise of The Beatles, from nearby Liverpool. Like kitchen-sink dramas, Coronation Street focused on the plight of 'ordinary folk', making use of Northern English language and dialect. Affectionate local terms like 'eh, chuck?', 'nowt' and 'by heck!' became widely heard on British TV for the first time."

The opening to this section needs a big rework. It is historically inaccurate in that Billy Liar wasn't released until 1963, and The Wednesday Play didn't start until 1964...so how can these be said to have helped make the north the 'highly visible and fashionable centre of 1960s Britain' which helped Coronation Street become established? If anything Coronation Street helped them become established. I kept this information as it has been part of the article for a long time, but it is innaccurate and dwells on the received knowledge that Coronation Street was 'in' with the 60s.Ben 09:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Do all the Epiosdes Survive
Is the above statement true. Does all of Corries episodes in fact survive? Apparently Granada did not wipe their films and videotapes like the rest of ITV and BBC did. Enough episodes have survived for the recent DVD release. If they all do in fact survive it should be put in the article as most British soaps (as well as sitcoms) of the era are lost. CorrieEnders 20:47, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe they do, but the only verification I have of this is in a statement from Daran Little where he says: 'As archivist of Coronation Street I have been able to watch every episode.' Ben 22:43, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Not so long ago it was said all survive, but early episodes are in a very bad condition. Chris as I am Chris 22:59, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, they do. This from producer David Hanson ('Access All Areas', p.116): "Every Coronation Street episode ever made is still in existence, and copies reside in the tape library at Yorkshire Television." Eponymoose 21:48, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

2007: A new era
What is this all about? So Mike Baldwin left (the only 'historic' member of the family) and there have been a few new characters. It hardly signifies a new era. Ben 16:00, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I have removed the Febuary 2007 announcment about six charectedrs to depart. I have checked digital spy, itv website, and soap spoilers.net as well as Mike Haltermans page and have found no such announcement. If it is readded please cite a source. CorrieEnders 00:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed the same information yesterday, and wrote on the User talk page about not adding nonsense. I wrote again just now about citing additions to articles to reliable sources. It's a load of cobblers as far as I am aware. Ben 02:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)