Talk:Corvette/Summaries and rebuttals per Born2cycle

We are supposed to use the NPOV perspective when writing articles - is there any reason the NPOV voice can't be used when writing argument summaries on talk pages? I suggest not. Again, if you have a problem with anything written there, improve it! (just like an article). --Born2cycle (talk) 19:47, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Summary argument: Support: Corvette→ Corvette (ship); Chevrolet Corvette → Corvette
(this section is intended to be edited anonymously (like an article) by anyone who supports this position)


 * Per page view statistics, a user who searches with the term "Corvette" is most likely to be looking for the Chevrolet Corvette, and, so, the former should thus redirect to the latter, per the definition of a "primary topic.".
 * Per google hits, the car is about 4 times more likely to be sought (about 7 million results for "ship" vs. 30 million for "car.")

Rebuttal

 * The primary topic criteria is not merely to determine which topic is most likely to be the one being searched when a user enters a given search term, it's about being the topic that is "much more likely than any other" to be the one being sought, and there is no evidence that the Chevrolet (nor any other topic commonly referred to as "Corvette") meets that criteria.

Summary argument: Support: Corvette→ Corvette (ship); Corvette (disambiguation) → Corvette
(this section is intended to be edited by anyone anonymously (like an article) who supports this position)

Neither the car nor the ship type meets the criteria at primary topic, therefore the dab page should be at the base name. While it's true that articles should not be moved without good reason, compliance with primary topic is a good reason to move an article, arguably one of the best reasons.

The ship type does not meet the primary topic criteria as reflected by article viewing statistics, despite being at the base name (which means anyone typing in Corvette goes to the ship type article whether that's the sought topic or not). For example, Chevrolet Corvette had almost twice as many hits in March 2011 (91955) as did Corvette (52477).

While the car does get almost twice as many hits as this article, it does not meet the primary topic criteria because having only about twice as many hits does not make it "much more likely than any other" to be the one being sought.

A good rule of thumb is: whenever page A has more traffic than page B, and the name in question is commonly used to refer to the topics of both articles, page B should not be at the base (undisambiguated) name.

Since there is no primary topic for the name Corvette, which has more than two uses, a dab page should be at that name, per WP:D and WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.

Summary argument: Oppose both moves
(this section is intended to be edited anonymously (like an article) by anyone who supports this position)


 * There's only a need to disambiguate if the current name would otherwise be shared with other articles. Since the article about the car is supposed to be at Chevrolet Corvette, there is no need to disambiguate Corvette.
 * WP:TITLECHANGES states that "if an article title has been stable for a long time, and there is no good reason to change it, it should not be changed." Although the ship type may not meet the primary topic criteria, compliance with WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is not a good reason to change a title.
 * Anyway, the ship type meets the criteria at primary topic. Specifically...
 * There is an exception (under discussion, but still) to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for preferring more well-established topics to more recent ones, even if the more recent one is more likely to be the one people are searching for. "An exception may be appropriate when recentism and educational value are taken into account, especially if one of these topics is a vital article. In such a case, consensus may determine that the article should be treated as the primary topic regardless of whether it is the article most sought by users."
 * The ship type may (?) be the primary topic for non-Americans.
 * There is no need to change anything. Anyone arriving here (article about the ship type) while looking for the Corvette Stingray is likely to react as, "Oh, of course!" The hatnote quickly leads the sought topic in the click of a mouse. It really isn't a problem.
 * This page should stay where it is because it is the primary use in the English language in exactly the same way that a roadrunner is a bird, a barracuda is a fish, a cobra is a snake, a javelin is a spear and a midget is a small person.
 * There is the important consideration about dumbing down Wikipedia which is what the reference to "education value" at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC means.
 * Also what about the millions of users who aren't car mad spongs, won't they find it confusing when California takes them to a Ferrari 250 GT ?!

Rebuttal

 * While it's true "there's only a need to disambiguate if the current name would otherwise be shared with other articles", that consideration must include usage in redirects as well as in article titles. That is, any number of names may be used to refer to a given topic, and the topic Chevrolet Corvette is certainly commonly referred to as just Corvette.  Therefore the name "Corvette" must be shared with that topic, and can only be used as a title of an article about another topic if that other topic meets primary topic criteria - that's what WP:PRIMARYTOPIC is about.