Talk:Cory Lidle/Archive 2

Joe Torre
Why are people adding Joe Torre as a source? Even the links you're using as references don't mention Torre's name. Please stop adding Torre to the article until it's verifiable.
 * CNN had Torre confirming that it was Lidle's plane. Fan-1967 21:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * So does ESPN and CNBCZzz345zzz
 * Here's the link: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/11/plane.crash/index.html -- Fan-1967 21:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * WFAN NY Mike and the Maddog both confirmed that Torre told them he was on the plane. PantheraLeo 21:19, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * So please explain why it needs to be in an encyclopedia entry about a person? And using present tense speech no less.  This isn't a blog, it's an encyclopedia.


 * Well I didn't add that bit into the article. Just telling you why it would be and how he is involved in the sitaution. Whether it should be there or not is besides the point : P PantheraLeo 21:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * You're using retard radio hosts as a named source? MonkBirdDuke 21:24, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Ok, let's all calm down. RIP Cory Lidle.  AP and ESPN both confirmed his death. sjt81
 * Agreed that people need to calm down. People need to stop editing the article adding things like "ESPN is now reporting..."

Stop updating as if this is a blog
Stop adding each bit of "breaking news" to this entry. Editing the page and adding things like "The mayor now says..." or "ESPN is now claiming that..." is unprofessional at best and horrible writing style at worst.--Kester Teague 21:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. This should all be deleted. ChangeOfFate 21:37, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, folks were demanding Confirmation and Sources, at least leave it up until the furor dies down and then clean it up. SirFozzie 21:40, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

the blog style edits have more to do with people wanting to see their name in the history list, their 0.15 mins of fame, than the correct use of Wiki. Wiki is not meant to be an repository for the idle speculation of the 24/7 news networks. There have been over 400 edits since this story broke, absurd. Let the dust settle, then edit. MrMarmite 22:53, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Well I have no opininon on this, it's not vandalism and is by valid sourced all I know is many people broke WP:3RR in this revert war though. Jaranda wat's sup 23:08, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Death not yet confirmed
The mayor has said that officials will not release any names until next of kin notfied. Chivista 21:38, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That does not mean his death is unconfirmed.--Kester Teague 21:39, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It doesn't mean he is dead either. ChangeOfFate 21:40, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * It's pretty standard for the mayor to say something to that effect, but he doesn't control the media. If it was confirmed by other sources, it's still confirmed. Confirming a person's death isn't the exclusive domain of the Mayor of New York. Kafziel Talk 21:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Confirming dental records and DNA is going to take a very long time; I think it's prudent enough to put it on the page since most news networks are confirming it. Afterall, I think if Lidle were still alive he'd probably call someone to set it straight by now. MonkBirdDuke 21:44, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It's confirmed at this New York Times link. dcandeto 21:44, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Is there anyway we can get another news source besides "ESPN"? I mean can anyone show us an AP Link confirming this? AP > ESPN, kthxbai. ChangeOfFate 21:46, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * There is an AP report on yahoo linked on the page. ESPN is the leading news source for sports, while other things on the crash I would not use them as a source, they would be able to find sources close to the Lidle family and Yankee organization.  The sports world is acting as he has died.  Coaches from former teams have spoke.


 * ESPN is now also reporting that his wife is on a commercial flight, which would be a reason for next of kin not being notified. (notice how this is on the discussion page, not claiming it's fact) sjt81
 * Yes. Now if the others would follow your lead...or go get a myspace page if they need to see their words on the internet.--Kester Teague 22:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Most recent update on ESPNews is that Lidle's passport and wallet were found, but that the bodies of those killed have yet to be recovered.  Jermey Schapp of ESPN states that, as of 30 minutes ago, the family of Lidle still had not been notified.


 * I would also like to add Steinbrenner as those confirming Lidle's death.  - megarockman

Over/Under
1 day until the NYC media blames it all on A-rod.Zzz345zzz

Why is the page locked? It's confirmed that Lidle has died.


 * The page is semiprotected right now because, unfortunately, a current event like this triggers a high rate of anonymous vandalism. This is regrettable for good-faith new editors who want to contribute to the article, but there is too much bad experience with leaving pages like this unprotected. Newyorkbrad 21:47, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I've seen tons of crazy vandalism today...agree with the lock. MonkBirdDuke 01:19, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Airplane photo
The plane in the photo with him is not the plane involved in the crash (Cirrus 20). This one looks like a Cessna, maybe. It definitely isn't the plane in the crash, as that plane has a low wing (http://www.answers.com/topic/cirrus-sr20) and the plane in the photo has a high wing. Unless he owns two planes, or previously owned the one in the photo, it is questionable whether the plane in the photo is "his plane." Even if it is/was, it might be helpful to clarify that it was not the plane in the crash. Thanks.

Last game
He pitched last on October 7. Not October 1.
 * October 1 was last regular-season game; October 7 was a playoff game. Newyorkbrad 22:05, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Note 2 is incorrect
"Yankee Cory Lidle on NYC plane; 2 killed, Associated Press, accessed October 11, 2006". The headline now says "Yankee Cory Lidle presumed 1 of 2 killed". There is still no real confirmation he's dead.


 * ESPN and MLB.com have both reported that he is dead. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 22:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Does it matter at the moment? Wiki is not a 24/7 news service. Why the 400+ edits in the last couple of hours. Do people really think people come to wiki for up to the minute news/speculation? MrMarmite 22:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Exactly.--Kester Teague 23:17, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I was only pointing out the inaccuracy of the link.

Thurman Munson
For ease of comparison and contrast, please add "see also" link to Thurman Munson, a Yankee who also died in a plane crash, in 1979. 171.161.160.10 22:48, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Done. JonathanFreed 22:51, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Why was it taken out in the first place? I added it when I saw Clemente in there, then it got the hook for "already being mentioned," even though Munson's probably more relevant to Lidle than Clemente. Drjayphd 08:09, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Bloomburg
I believe that continuing to add minute details from the mayor's press conference is silly and amatuerish. His press conference is already forgotten so I see no need to include it. It gives the article the feel of a tabloid website or someone's personal blog or myspace page.--Kester Teague 22:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Listing in Category:Accidental suicide victims?
That seems dubious to me. Is there a source that would say that his death was accidental? I'd think if somebody crashed a plane into a building, then it would have had to have been deliberate. ESPN said that Lidle had been flying a plane a lot in the last several years; that sounds like he knew what he was doing. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 23:03, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * He started flying relatively recently, see this article, and reportedly called in a fuel emergency shortly before crashing. Newyorkbrad 23:09, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I highley doubt that this was a "Suicide" in the common thought of the word. Accidental Suicide, possibly.  But recent reports say that we do not know who had the controls at time of impact(Lidle or the flight instructor on board).  What we do know is that Lidle has had his pilot liscense for 7 months.


 * While I originally thought it could be termed an accidental suicide if he were flying the plane I'm not so sure now. The accidental suicide category only has like 8 people in it. Most either shot themselves somehow or other or killed themselves from autoerotic asphyixation. One blew himself up while makinga bomb. When someone puts a gun to their head and pulls the trigger (or something similar) I guess it's fairly easy to say it's an accidental sucide. But when it's an accident like this, I'm not so sure. Let me give another example. if someone were to be killed in a car accident and they were driving and the accident were completely their fault (e.g. they fell asleep and rammed into a truck, were drunk and similar, ran a red light, whatever) would you call it an accidental sucide? I wouldn't... This is actually quite complicated. If someone takes the wrong pills for example (and it's completely their fault) would you call it an accidental suicide? Nil Einne 09:40, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Suicide?
Suicide is certainly a possibility, though it is too soon to put it in that category. He has a history of mercurial mouthing off (expunged from the article by somebody), so it occurred to me that he might have been having emotional problems. Stuff happens and power loss during flight is extremely difficult for any pilot, but it is bad piloting to crash into the side of a building instead of gliding to Central Park or the water. Also, he had his passport with him. What's up with that? Hu 23:25, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It is possible he was on his way to Florida for the offseason, though no flight plan was filed. He would of had to make stops en route to Florida.  Now on espn they say he may have been taking a multi stop flight to California. Sjt81 23:32, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Last I heard neither California nor Florida required passports. However, he could have been flying by airliner from there to a foreign country.  NPR just reported that there were two people on board the plane, which argues against a suicide. Hu 23:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * As a Major Leauge Baseball Player he may always have his passport with him. ESPN just announced the passport was found in a bag.Sjt81 23:39, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Going theory is he was cleaning his stuff out of his locker. I'm pretty sure the team itself keeps players' passports handy. It would be unwieldy for each player to have to remember to take theirs. "Oh, I forgot mine" and the like. 24.228.54.78 00:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Unlikely...he had hotel reservations for later on and someone else was in the plane with him. Thunderbunny 05:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Neither CNN, NY Times, or MLB.com is saying it was suicide, so unless there is another source sayng it was, it would probably be best to assume an accident for now. Grand Slam 7 12:10, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * It is sufficient just to say they are dead and that there was a crash. NTSB is there to determine if it was an accident, the cause i.e. mechanical or human.  Any further is NOT encycopedic. Chivista 13:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Suicide might be a theory if he had been alone in the plane, but seems pretty implausible with a flight instructor in the other seat. Fan-1967 14:40, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

"On Wednesday 11th October Cory crashed his plane into a tower block in New York killing himself and his flying instructor." This line seems to imply - to me - that Lidle committed suicide (which, at this point, is wrong). I just think the line needs to be a little more clear. What does everyone think? --joeinthebox 17:59, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Agree; have copyedited accordingly. Newyorkbrad 18:01, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Much better. Thanks--joeinthebox 18:09, 12 October 2006 (UTC)


 * If u could see some coincidence among 'LADen' and 'LiDle', u say - it corresponds to semiotics used by psychologists from secret services. XXI age is the age of autopilot...