Talk:Cotswold Olimpick Games/Archive 1

Comment
From The Games Today section: "A 20th century "Robert Dover""...

The games are still going on, right? Shouldn't that be a 21st century Robert Dover or is there someting I'm missing? - Hessef 07:59, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Should Shin Kicking redirect here? It seems a sport in it's own right, and even though it is a highlight of games, isn't just done there, is it? wraith808 (talk) 16:35, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Change page name to "Cotswold Olimpick Games"
Why is the page "Cotswold Games", not "Cotswold Olimpick Games" - I suggest a swift change of name!93.96.154.200 (talk) 03:03, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Lacking any objections, I shall ask for this to be done.93.96.148.42 (talk) 00:48, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Date of Next Games in Lede
This has recently been removed twice without explanation. I am reinstating it, as I believe it to be important information. Please explain here why it should not be included.93.96.148.42 (talk) 17:26, 18 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Because wikipedia is not a what's on or travel guide. You don't see dates in the lead of Olympic Games --Simple Bob (talk) 22:18, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
 * But you do in 2012 Summer Olympics etc. I think adding it to the end of the lead would be acceptable here - Since 1963 they have taken place on the Friday after the Spring Bank Holiday, in 2010 this will be ... - Ba se me nt 12  (T.C) 11:24, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Added to lede, as per discussion93.96.148.42 (talk) 02:26, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Start date

 * Antick Dispositions and the Perilous Politics of Culture: Costume and Culture in Jacobean England and America - Roger D. Abrahams

This book claims that the first games was on "Whitsuntide, 1611". Parrot of Doom 20:47, 26 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Nobody is certain when the Games began. Haddon says that various documents suggest anything from 1601 to 1612, with 1612 the likeliest date, just after Dover moved to the Cotswolds. Malleus Fatuorum 20:58, 26 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, probably best to say then that "sources disagree on the starting date" or similar? Parrot of Doom 21:25, 26 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Probably. I'll knock something up. Malleus Fatuorum 21:53, 26 June 2010 (UTC)


 * I've added a paragraph explaining a bit more about Dover. There's more to be said yet, as the source starts talking about links to royalty etc.  In adding this paragraph though I've orphaned the first part of that section from its sources.  I don't suppose you know which cite covers that, do you? Parrot of Doom 22:21, 26 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Yep, added. Malleus Fatuorum 22:28, 26 June 2010 (UTC)


 * Ta. Off to bed now, long day tomorrow.  The pdf is in the references section, it makes interesting reading actually.  I used the image therein to replace the article's image. Parrot of Doom 22:36, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Robert Dover
The material on the early life of Dover seems excessive for this article, so I have copied it, with due attribtion, to Robert Dover (Cotswold Games). That leaves freedom of manoeuvre to thin out the Dover material here. Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 06:38, 1 July 2010 (UTC)


 * That's just not going to happen. Malleus Fatuorum 12:06, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Motivation
It has been said that "even Dover himself said that he didn't know why he started the Games". That being so, should there be an unsourced statement Dover's motivation in organising the Games was his belief that physical exercise was necessary for the defence of the realm, but he may also have been attempting to bring rich and poor together in the intro? Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 17:58, 3 July 2010 (UTC)


 * No, there shouldn't. Now changed. Malleus Fatuorum 18:07, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Whitsun vs Whitsuntide
Whitsuntide may redirect to Whitsun but they're not the same thing. Standardising on one term is all very well, but not when it changes the meaning of the text. Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 17:01, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * They are exactly the same thing according to my dictionary. "Whitsun" is an abbreviation of "Whitsuntide". Malleus Fatuorum 17:41, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * OED seems to suggest that Whitsun means "belonging to or occuring at Whitsuntide". Parrot of Doom 17:51, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * All I can say is that if Kenilworth Terrace feels strongly about this, which I don't, then he should change whichever occurence of "Whitsun" that offends him to "Whitsuntide". Malleus Fatuorum 18:03, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * According to Wikipedia, "Whitsun" is a religious festival and "Whitsuntide" is the week following Whit Sunday. I'm not going to change the entry, since I don't claim to know which one is correct in this context.  Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 18:26, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia is not a reliable source, of course, but that's an interesting distinction. I'll take another look through the article to see which is appropriate where. Malleus Fatuorum 18:38, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * It's probably just a case of overlapping words. It certainly isn't something to worry about, although maybe some of those 13th century bishops might object :) Parrot of Doom 19:57, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I think Parrot means that s/he isn't worried about it. FAC reviewers and those of us interested in accuracy, overlapping classes not entirely composed of mediaeval bishops, might still do so.  Fowler, not a 13th century bishop, writes "Whit.  The word Whitsun is a curtailment of Whit Sunday.  .  Brand and Ellis, 19th century non-bishops, refer to Whitsun-Ales as being usual in the country at Whitsuntide .  See also  or  for post-13th-century sources which distinguish the two words.  Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 20:19, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * I think you need to work on that sense of humour mate. Anyway, when it comes to the exact meaning of a word I tend to refer to the online edition of the OED, which states:


 * Whitsun - Used attrib. to denote something belonging to, connected with, or occurring at the season of Whit Sunday or Whitsuntide: as Whitsun air, contribution, fair, holiday, market, morn, morris-dance, pastoral; Whitsun ale Hist. [ALE 3], a parish festival formerly held at Whitsuntide, marked by feasting, sports, and merry-making; Whitsun eve, even [EVE n.1 2, EVEN n. 2], the day before Whit Sunday; Whitsun farthing = PENTECOSTAL n.; Whitsun gillyflower, local name for a double-flowered variety of rocket (Hesperis matronalis); Whitsun lady, lord, titles of the leading or presiding personages at a Whitsun ale; Whitsun week, the week beginning with Whit Sunday, Whit-week. Also occas. in names of the days of Whit-week, as Whitsun Sunday (obs. or dial.) = WHIT SUNDAY, Whitsun Monday, etc. = Whit Monday, etc.


 * Whitsuntide - The season of Whit Sunday; Whit Sunday and the days immediately following. Parrot of Doom 20:23, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * Did you miss out a bit before the "Used attrib." that you quoted which gives the substantiative meaning? Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 20:27, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * In any case I think you quoted enough already to support my point: "Whitsun" and "Whitsuntide" mean different things. Kenilworth Terrace (talk) 20:30, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


 * So change them, then! And no I missed nothing. Parrot of Doom 20:33, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Temporal Confusion
The article seems to take a very historical view of what is an existing event. The lede is very long, but hardly describes the current games at all, while the passage ludicrously entitled the present day deals with the last 60 years in very few words, without even a proper list of the games played. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.148.42 (talk) 02:43, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * What is ludicrous is your own confusion. Why not go try bothering someone else for a change? Eric   Corbett  16:52, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

How many words?
"Motor cycle" is two words in British English? Sca (talk) 14:32, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * No, it isn't. Do you think we should change that, or do we need to have a full UN Security Council meeting first? Eric   Corbett  16:55, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Far be it from me to dictate usage to Albion. Sca (talk) 23:27, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

FA Nightmare
The "protection template" didn't do much good! Congratulations to Eric Corbett and others for keeping the show on the road. Davidships (talk) 06:54, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

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