Talk:Cotton-top tamarin/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Zad68 (talk · contribs) 15:33, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Status = NOT LISTED AS GA
Starting review... right off the top, looks pretty decent. ihyuan, are you still around to respond to questions/issues?? 17:21, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Finished first read-through, notes below, still have to go through sources. There are some grammar and clarity items to address. 19:50, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

ihyuan, are you around to fix the issues identified? If not, this won't be able to pass GA... 22:33, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Zad68, ihyuan was part of a class at Washington University; a couple of dozen bird articles were submitted to GAN as a result, including this one. The university has been on break since before Christmas; according to the university web site, classes begin again on Monday, January 14, so I wouldn't expect to be getting any reply before then. Even then, there's no guarantee that members of the class will be returning to Wikipedia now that their fall class assignment (and Wikipedia editing requirement) is over. At this point, you should probably keep this on hold for the usual week, and if ihyuan hasn't checked in by then—or maybe by the end of the following weekend, if you're feeling generous—you may have to close the review at that point. BlueMoonset (talk) 23:35, 10 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for this info! I never would have known.  I'll do as you suggest.    15:17, 11 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Hi, Zad68. Thanks so much for your review comments. I was in this class last semester with ihyuan, and was main contributor to it from the class. Ihyuan nominated it, and while I'm unsure if she'll be able to work on the article, I would love to take on the review if at all possible. Please let me know if that is alright. While I am a little backed up right now, I will try and get through the items listed below as I can. Thank you so much for your patience, I'm looking forward to improving the page further! Nsavalia23 (talk) 19:02, 15 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Great to hear! Yes, let's get this done.  I stopped working on the review thinking nobody was around to address the issues, but if you'd like to carry it forward, fine with me, and I'll finish the review.  It's my only review going so that's fine.    19:05, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

OK I spent a little more time tonight looking at the article and right now I am leaning toward not passing it at this time. The biggest issue I ran into tonight is the use of Neyman 1978, which is a primary study, and it appears the interpretation of this primary source is being done by the Wikipedia article author, which is a pretty serious problem per WP:NOR. Also the paper studied one group of tamarins and Neyman's observations of this group are being use to support fairly central general statements in the article about tamarins, and this is also a WP:NOR problem--the source cited doesn't support the article content. There are some other sourcing problems as well, including using Wikipedia as a source (not allowed) and what looks like an anonymous self-published source. So, I'm getting the suspicion that a good understanding of WP sourcing guidelines was not used during article development. I'd like to hear back before making a final decision but these seem like non-trivial problems that would require a bigger time window to fix than is normally seen in a GA review. 05:09, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Since there hasn't been any activity on the article for over a week, and since you've made the effort to review the article, I will make the changes and fixes you've suggested today. I'll have a look into the OR and referencing issues after that. Cheers, Jack (talk) 12:34, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * OK Jack. If Nsavalia23 has an objection to you stepping in and taking it over, I guess we'll have to discuss that, but assuming there is no objection from Nsavalia23, I'm OK with it.  I was still having reservations about trying to keep this particular GA run going, but in light of your other work in related areas, and especially that gold star near the top of primate, I'm OK with giving it a go!  But please if you think this article needs too much work for the normal GA timeframe (usually about a week) let me know and we'll close this GA, looking for a resubmit later.  I'd rather you take the time to do a proper job and resubmit a little later instead of feeling time pressure to squeeze all the work needed in to bring it to GA.    18:27, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Yeah you're right, I don't think it's ready in its current state. I just want to make sure all your effort doesn't go to waste, comments like yours are always really helpful! Especially when you've done all the hard work and someone just has to make the changes. Cheers, Jack (talk) 19:12, 21 January 2013 (UTC)


 * No objection here! Thank you Jack for picking up my slack. With my inexperience in Wiki-writing and with the WP:NOR issues, I really appreciate Zad68's comments and think both of your help will get this article to a much better level. I will chime in to move the article along if you don't mind, but please do feel free to lead the way! Nsavalia23 (talk) 22:40, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks folks... as discussed above, this article does not meet GA standards at this time and isn't reasonably expected to be able to be made to meet the standards in the normal GA timeframe. 02:51, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Picked up again as Jack has been willing to address issues, continuing review. 04:06, 7 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Impressions after first read-through: what a tremendous improvement.  Not a lot to pick on with the prose, so it'll be investigating the sourcing and making sure the article content is reflecting the sources accurately.    04:27, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Jack I will be providing more notes but need a few days, appreciate your patience.

Jack it was pointed out to me that it wasn't proper form to try to continue a failed GA, so we're moving it over to the GA2 page. See you over here... 03:55, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

MOS compliance

 * Wikilinks to DAB pages that need to be resolved to article pages: gular, mutualism
 * Done. Jack (talk) 11:05, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Suggested technical terms to wikilink/explain/replace with more common terms: multivariate
 * Done, but there are probably a few more that I'll catch in subsequent read-throughs. Jack (talk) 11:05, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

General

 * "However" is overused and often used inappropriately, inhibiting clarity. It is often being used in places where "additionally" is actually meant.  In many cases, the use of the word simply can be eliminated.  Go through the article and review each use of the word, and remove the word in each case where it is not being used to contrast two opposing ideas.
 * Done. Jack (talk) 11:05, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Etymology

 * In German-speaking areas, the cotton-top tamarin is commonly known as "Lisztaffe" (literally "Liszt monkey") most likely due to the resemblance of its hairstyle with that of Hungarian composer and piano virtuoso Franz Liszt. -- this is sourced to German Wikipedia, Wikis are never WP:RS, either remove the sentence (it's not critical) or cite the underlying sources
 * Removed sentence as I couldn't find a decent source for this. Jack (talk) 11:06, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Taxonomy and phylogeny

 * Consider combining first sentence referencing Linnaeus with the following paragraph to avoid having a single-sentence paragraph
 * Done. Jack (talk) 11:08, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "Philip Hershkovitz performed a taxonomic analysis of the species in 1977, classifying the Panamanian tamarin Saguinus geoffroyi as a subspecies of Saguinus oedipus, which lives exclusively in Colombia, based on fur coloration patterns, cranial and mandibular morphology, and ear size.[7] " -- can this long sentence be broken up to make the content more clear?
 * Done. Jack (talk) 11:08, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "finally" -- remove as time-relative word, what if someone else does an analysis next year?
 * Done. Jack (talk) 11:08, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Physical characteristics

 * "foreword" -- probably "foreward" is meant
 * Done. Jack (talk) 11:08, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Behavior

 * The cotton-top tamarin is a highly social primate that typically lives in groups of 15 individuals. 15 exactly, or is there a range?  I checked this against the cited source document and can't confirm 15, what page is it on?
 * Changed, now uses multiple sources. Jack (talk) 13:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * why is "Cooperative Breeding Hypothesis" and wikilinked? Is this a trademarked discipline-standard term?  Can it be wikilinked to cooperative breeding?
 * Changed. Jack (talk) 13:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "Taken together, researchers believe..." -- 'Taken together' is modifying 'researchers' here instead of the behaviors, consider "Based on this, researchers..."
 * Replaced. Jack (talk) 13:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * They concluded that S. oedipus uses a simple grammar consisting of eight phonetic variations of short, frequency-modulated “chirps” that each represents varying messages and five longer constant frequency “whistles.” -- grammar issues here, consider: "They concluded that S. oedipus uses a simple grammar consisting of eight phonetic variations of short, frequency-modulated “chirps”each representing varying messagesand five longer, constant-frequency “whistles.”
 * Done. Jack (talk) 13:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * They claim that some of these calls demonstrate -- "claim" is a WP:WTW indicating doutfulness, consider "theorize" or "hypothesize"
 * Done. Jack (talk) 13:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * However, infants will also reduce their prototype chirping in the presence of predators. While it is unclear whether infants are shadowing the calling behavior of adults or they are comprehending danger remains unclear. However researchers argue that these cotton-top toddlers are able to represent semantic information regardless of immature speech production -- is "However" needed here, both times?
 * Done. Jack (talk) 13:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "an aforementioned" -- not needed
 * Done. Jack (talk) 13:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "When an adult produces an aforementioned C-call chirp," -- the C-call has not been discussed by this point
 * Removed aforementioned. Jack (talk) 13:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The whole " -call" concept needs to be described before it starts getting used in the discussions about language acquisition and usage
 * Add sentence in communication section. Jack (talk) 13:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Neyman's paper is primary study data, it's being cited to support general statements like "The cotton-top tamarin is a highly social primate that typically lives in groups of 15 individuals." This is troubling in two ways, 1) It appears the author of the Wikipedia article is the one doing the interpretation of the primary source, and this is not allowed per WP:NOR, and 2) This one specific study is being used inappropriately to make general statements about the tamarins.
 * Add secondary sources to general statements. Jack (talk) 13:00, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Conservation status

 * Habitat destruction through forest clearing is the main cause of this collapse, and cotton-tops have lost more than three-quarters of their original habitat to deforestation. -- cited to "fozblog" which appears to be a borderline source, can you find a stronger source?
 * Done. Jack (talk) 13:02, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Sourcing

 * German Wikipedia is not a WP:RS, Wikis are never WP:RS, remove sentence or cite underlying source
 * Removed. Jack (talk) 13:04, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * animalinfo.org appears to be an anonymous WP:SPS, what indicates it's relaible?
 * Removed. Jack (talk) 13:04, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

In this table:
 * Source lists the source as cited in the article
 * Seems WP:RS? means, "Does this source appear to meet WP:RS for reliable sourcing?"
 * Use OK? means, is the source used appropriately in the article? For the review, a few selected sources will be spot-checked to ensure they aren't plagiarized and support the article content.   indicates the source was not spot-checked.
 * Notes will summarize problems found and what needs to be done to fix them

Post-GA suggestions

 * Some duplicate wikilinks: foraging, altruism, predation, alarm calls
 * Done. Jack (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * But treat the wikilinks in the lead separately from the body. For example sagittal crest should be WL'd in the lead like it is in the body
 * Done. Jack (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Placement of footnotes should be made consistent. Sometimes they are inside the punctuation: and Coimbra-Filho in 1981[7], and, the Pinché tamarin[5], is; sometimes outside such as Thorington (1976),[7] posit, described by Linnaeus in 1758.[3].  I like refs after punctuation.
 * Done. Jack (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Make in-line reference styles consistent, sometimes they have ampersand (&), sometimes they have 'and' spelled out: Hernandez-Camacho & Cooper (1976), and later Mittermeier and Coimbra-Filho in 1981
 * Done. Jack (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Make use of quotes and apostrophes consistent... different styles are used
 * Done. Jack (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "pecking order" is casual and idiomatic, consider just "order" or "hierarchy"
 * Done. Jack (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "over and above" is redundant
 * Done. Jack (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "variously aged" unnecessary, consider removing
 * Done. Jack (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Behavior -- Is there an explanation how only the dominant pair ends up breeding? What prevenets the non-dominant members from breeding?
 * Explained. Jack (talk) 16:01, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * 'and ranks among the "The World's 25 Most Endangered Primates."'--consider explaining whose list this is and why it's notable to be on this list
 * Done. Jack (talk) 16:01, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * A few sentences without obvious references: Cotton-tops also have forelimbs that are shorter than their hind limbs. Males of the species are only slightly larger than females. Like other members of the Callithrix family, the species has claws on most fingers and toes. However, only the big toe has flat nails that most other primates have., It is considered one of the few bare-faced tamarins because of the lack of facial hair. Its lower canine teeth are longer than its incisors, creating the appearance of tusks. ... but the referencing that is there meets the relatively low GA requirements
 * Done. Jack (talk) 16:01, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * including curiosity, fear, dismay, playfulness, warnings, joy, and calls to young. -- unnecessary and inconsistent wikilinking in here
 * Removed. Jack (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * "CLC’s involve the" -- apostrophe not needed and make it look possessive
 * Done. Jack (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * References -- some duplicates, like Neyman 1978, combine them
 * Done. Jack (talk) 14:47, 4 March 2013 (UTC)